I am looking for advice on how best to re-use the Audio Nirvana MkII 2.8 cu. ft. cabinets I have built for the AN Super 10 Ferrite drivers. You can see the picture of the cabs here: DIY Full-Range Speaker Kits High Efficiency Speaker Audio Nirvana - 38.5T x 12W x 13.75D inches with a 6" port hole at the bottom. I am driving these with a 15 Watt DIY KT88 tube amp that a few folks have recommended on this forum (built using the great instructions by Blueglowelectronics: Sketches & Info | Blueglow Electronics), and I like this amp a lot!
Now to the speakers, I do like how sensitive and easy to drive the AN 10's are, but I am growing tired of the general brightness of them. As I already spent time and effort on building the cabs, is it at all a good idea to reuse the cabinets by let's say replacing AN's with Eminence Beta-10CX 10" Coaxial Drivers with PSD:2002S-8 1" Titanium tweeters and the PXB2:2K5CX 2-Way crossover at 2,500 Hz? All these are readily available from PE at reasonable prices. Eminence even provides recommendations implying that combo should be good in PA mains: https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_Home_Hi-Fi.pdf
Do you have opinions on how the final result would sound? Or would that be a complete waste of time and money, and I should just move on to build something tried and true, for example Zaph's ZDT3.5 speakers?
Now to the speakers, I do like how sensitive and easy to drive the AN 10's are, but I am growing tired of the general brightness of them. As I already spent time and effort on building the cabs, is it at all a good idea to reuse the cabinets by let's say replacing AN's with Eminence Beta-10CX 10" Coaxial Drivers with PSD:2002S-8 1" Titanium tweeters and the PXB2:2K5CX 2-Way crossover at 2,500 Hz? All these are readily available from PE at reasonable prices. Eminence even provides recommendations implying that combo should be good in PA mains: https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_DIY_Home_Hi-Fi.pdf
Do you have opinions on how the final result would sound? Or would that be a complete waste of time and money, and I should just move on to build something tried and true, for example Zaph's ZDT3.5 speakers?
- other than tuning (simple), you basically have Eminence's suggested size for studio monitor with slow low frequency rolloff.
Before you throw the AN baby out with the bathwater, do you have any frequency compensation such as a series LR "baffle step compensation" filter? - that alone could make for favorable balance.
Also, experiment with acoustic filters such as an oval cut out of cardboard and taped in front of the speaker. Briggs, BBC, JBL and others have used that approach and it can tame some piercing frequencies plus broaden horizontal dispersion at those frequencies.
Perceived success with Beta 10cx will depend upon its crossover implementation.
(Mike Chua at AMPLABS may have a better solution with "OSPREY" than Eminence's 2K5CX network values )
Scale "THIS" to the frame diameter of your Audio Nirvana, print the template on paper and give a try with cardboard or maybe better, foamboard. If made of thin plywood, then felt or foamboard could be applied on the side facing the speaker cone.
Maybe a one milliHenry choke paralleled with 4-8 ohms would level your AN enough -?
Before you throw the AN baby out with the bathwater, do you have any frequency compensation such as a series LR "baffle step compensation" filter? - that alone could make for favorable balance.
Also, experiment with acoustic filters such as an oval cut out of cardboard and taped in front of the speaker. Briggs, BBC, JBL and others have used that approach and it can tame some piercing frequencies plus broaden horizontal dispersion at those frequencies.
Perceived success with Beta 10cx will depend upon its crossover implementation.
(Mike Chua at AMPLABS may have a better solution with "OSPREY" than Eminence's 2K5CX network values )
Scale "THIS" to the frame diameter of your Audio Nirvana, print the template on paper and give a try with cardboard or maybe better, foamboard. If made of thin plywood, then felt or foamboard could be applied on the side facing the speaker cone.
Maybe a one milliHenry choke paralleled with 4-8 ohms would level your AN enough -?
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ASD1001S besides half the price of PSD2002, extends higher (if one can hear that high)
Eminence Asd1001s (also hopefully still available in bolt on version )
Eminence ASD1001 1" HF Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
Here's Eminence's coax with their crossover chart:
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_Coax_Use_v1.pdf
Eminence Asd1001s (also hopefully still available in bolt on version )
Eminence ASD1001 1" HF Titanium Horn Driver 1-3/8"-18 TPI
Here's Eminence's coax with their crossover chart:
https://www.eminence.com/pdf/Eminence_Coax_Use_v1.pdf
Greets!
??? These 'FR' type rising on axis drivers/horns are meant to be either listened to off axis [toe'd in] as much as necessary, usually crossing somewhere in from of one's face at the 'sweet spot' and/or use some form of baffle step correction [BSC] to tonally balance them over ~ its entire BW: General Speaker Related Articles
The Eminence would in most ways be a step down in high fidelity even with a 'start from scratch' XO design in a box a bit on the large side for good/best power handling [~1.5 ft^3 preferred], though if driven with a high output impedance SET amp it should be 'good enough' with just being [re] tuned to actual driver Fs.
Yes, 'PA' as in 'Public Address' systems.
No knowledge or opinion on multiway cone/dome speakers other than they lack horns.
GM
??? These 'FR' type rising on axis drivers/horns are meant to be either listened to off axis [toe'd in] as much as necessary, usually crossing somewhere in from of one's face at the 'sweet spot' and/or use some form of baffle step correction [BSC] to tonally balance them over ~ its entire BW: General Speaker Related Articles
The Eminence would in most ways be a step down in high fidelity even with a 'start from scratch' XO design in a box a bit on the large side for good/best power handling [~1.5 ft^3 preferred], though if driven with a high output impedance SET amp it should be 'good enough' with just being [re] tuned to actual driver Fs.
Yes, 'PA' as in 'Public Address' systems.
No knowledge or opinion on multiway cone/dome speakers other than they lack horns.
GM
Your cheap option is to spend a little time getting the Audio Nirvana drivers working to your satisfaction. A simple baffle-step filter (inductor and resistor in parallel, in series with the speaker) might do the job, probably for less than £20.
The next price bracket up would be to replace the drivers. When it comes to 10" coaxials, I highly recommend the Faital 10HX230. They're very clean, and the crossover is pretty straightforward.
Chris
if you happen to try Beta1pc, then write to Mike Chua of Ampslab for crossover and compression driver advice. He worked to get it sounding clear on vocals.- so may well be better than Eminence's 2mH/10uF lowpass, 3.3uF/-.33mH highpass network
Osprey-II Revisited (Eminence 10CX with Selenium D220ti) – AmpsLab
Osprey-II Revisited (Eminence 10CX with Selenium D220ti) – AmpsLab
(sorry for typo on Beta10cx) - Here's Mike's first "OSPREY" speaker using Peavey's RX14 compression driver
Osprey - Eminence Beta 10CX Coxial
and here's how RX14 looked on a very small horn vs its behavior on my Beta10cx
Osprey - Eminence Beta 10CX Coxial
and here's how RX14 looked on a very small horn vs its behavior on my Beta10cx
it would make the 10 more like a "4-5" in the horizontal plane. for really hot drivers, two "lens" could be tried - say a tall aspect oval for the main cone, then a little similar one attached to the first oval lens which only covers the diameter of the whizzer - Or perhaps as you suggest, just one oval/etc. to mainly address the whizzer's area of radiation.
Look at my old graph of a 15" speaker bare then with an oval slot filter. For say an 8" that effect would move up an octave. (correct smoothing wasn't applied but the traces are relative)
it could be tried with small hot drivers like some of the 3 inch LaVoce models with steep rise ti make on axis listening more listenable. (maybe)
I made a little cardboard Karlson aperture chamber to put in front of a Dynavox "phenolic ring tweeter" cone. In the horizontal, it make on and 60 off curves converge on the top end. The bump on the bottom of its range it probably its high Qtc nature.
Look at my old graph of a 15" speaker bare then with an oval slot filter. For say an 8" that effect would move up an octave. (correct smoothing wasn't applied but the traces are relative)
it could be tried with small hot drivers like some of the 3 inch LaVoce models with steep rise ti make on axis listening more listenable. (maybe)
I made a little cardboard Karlson aperture chamber to put in front of a Dynavox "phenolic ring tweeter" cone. In the horizontal, it make on and 60 off curves converge on the top end. The bump on the bottom of its range it probably its high Qtc nature.
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Thank you all for your suggestions (and I mean it, even the recommendations to just toss them out the window or burn them!). In defense of the AN10's, they do have their moments with records like Muddy Waters at Newport, but at the same time with the Howlin' Wolf recordings they re-produce so much "howl" that it is hard to endure the whole LP... and that is a shame!
I am going to read up on the LR BSC designs next, and play a little bit with the acoustic filters to hopefully make them more enjoyable. And if not, they will join a few other speakers already relegated to the basement exile!
I am going to read up on the LR BSC designs next, and play a little bit with the acoustic filters to hopefully make them more enjoyable. And if not, they will join a few other speakers already relegated to the basement exile!
Aa007
get like a cheap ($4) but cheerful Dayton 1mH steel core inductor, and maybe an 8 ohm 25 watt resistor to parallel across the inductor - put that filter in series with your AN10. Muddy's "Folk Singer" and "Sings Big Bill" are beautiful recordings to this day and sound fine on CD. What Wolf I have from CD sounds pretty harsh on IEM. "Electric Mud" doesn't have much dynamics and very rough sounding - but still fun with its pointless wah-wah.
get like a cheap ($4) but cheerful Dayton 1mH steel core inductor, and maybe an 8 ohm 25 watt resistor to parallel across the inductor - put that filter in series with your AN10. Muddy's "Folk Singer" and "Sings Big Bill" are beautiful recordings to this day and sound fine on CD. What Wolf I have from CD sounds pretty harsh on IEM. "Electric Mud" doesn't have much dynamics and very rough sounding - but still fun with its pointless wah-wah.
and you could assuming 2 inductors, examine one cabinet with them in series for 2mH and listen to the effect vs 1mH . There's probably no need for fancy resistors in the BSC network as the cheap block type exhibit no significant inductance in the audio band.
Here's the general effects of what you'll have on hand for 4 and 8 ohm resistors in parallel with 1mH - then with 2mH
Here's the general effects of what you'll have on hand for 4 and 8 ohm resistors in parallel with 1mH - then with 2mH
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that is a great idea! Those graphs look pretty good to me, now to the real test. I also have a few 0.5mH air core chokes on hand for another project I am planning to work on (Affordable Accuracy Monitors (AAM) Dennis Murphy Pioneer SP-BS22-LR DIY Modifications | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums ), so I can even try adding those for 1.5 and 2.5 mH values in the BSC circuit.
It took me a while to get everything built and tested, but I finally settled on the 1mH choke and an 8 Ohm resistor in my BSC circuit (pictured below). In my opinion it made a favorable difference in taming the overall brightness of the AN 10s, thank you Freddi!
I am still undecided about the use of the acoustic filters though. In my listening tests with well recorded material they seem to have a somewhat negative effect (if anything). But it with lesser quality recordings it is a different story... When I play "The Lion's Roar" by First Aid Kit (don't laugh, it is just for the sounds test ;-) ), it does sound much better with the acoustic filters in place. It appears that I need to make my acoustic filters removable, and put them on as needed - or I reserve these speakers for playing Chesky Records recordings only!
I am still undecided about the use of the acoustic filters though. In my listening tests with well recorded material they seem to have a somewhat negative effect (if anything). But it with lesser quality recordings it is a different story... When I play "The Lion's Roar" by First Aid Kit (don't laugh, it is just for the sounds test ;-) ), it does sound much better with the acoustic filters in place. It appears that I need to make my acoustic filters removable, and put them on as needed - or I reserve these speakers for playing Chesky Records recordings only!
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