I have already built 2 TABAQ pairs (MLTL which are very similar in dimensions) and now I am hooked... Now almost any simple bass reflex commercial speakers up to 500EUR with that rubbery bass sound flawed to me.
Your advice is needed for another build. I feel ready for bigger and a bit more expensive, requirements to make it more narrow suggestion:
With all above, what you, dear DIY colleagues would suggest me? Is it WIBAQ sized speaker with some cool but cheap driver I want to build?
I am not afraid of Hornresp anymore, so will simulate anything you will suggest me
All suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!
Your advice is needed for another build. I feel ready for bigger and a bit more expensive, requirements to make it more narrow suggestion:
- Finished speaker has to go a bit deeper than TABAQ, lets say that 10Hz lower is ok, especially some more bass in 40-50Hz range.
- Decent quality of treble at 10-14kHz. I really understand, that full-ranger will not be as crisp as dedicated tweeter, but midwoofers acting as full-ranges is not to my liking. I am deaf above 13.5kHz, so the very upper part does not matter.
- 4-6 inch full-range speaker. 3 inch and smaller excluded. Preferably with as little correction filters or equalization required, but this is not deal-breaker. Price per one driver up to 80 USD/EUR, if there is smth head and shoulder above everything else - can be 100USD/EUR per unit. It should be available in Europe. Probably I am still not ready for MarkAudio, so exclude them for now...
- Speaker type - MLTL or other similar quarterwave type designs. The sound of them really impressed me, also space is limited. The only exception could be compact front firing horn if it has any advantages to MLTL.
With all above, what you, dear DIY colleagues would suggest me? Is it WIBAQ sized speaker with some cool but cheap driver I want to build?
I am not afraid of Hornresp anymore, so will simulate anything you will suggest me
All suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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Build Curt Campbell's Halcyon, it's exactly what your are looking for and his designs are excellent. He shares the full design or you can buy a full kit from Madisound.
Speaker Design Works
Cheers,
Greg
Speaker Design Works
Cheers,
Greg
Nice suggestion! I like how he says "coherent response" and with a crossover at ~400 Hz, I believe it. Given I cant hear much above 13.5 either, I'll trade off extension for coherence in a speaker design.
I really like SBA lately.
A simple design would be their 5x8" woofer. It's 5" wide when mounted vertically,so you can still keep the towers relatively narrow, but 8" tall, so even more oomph.
Check it out in Hornresp... It will dig lower than your requirements.
Then, just add a sealed tweeter under it, since the sims show better output with the woofer higher up, and add a small cap to it.
A simple design would be their 5x8" woofer. It's 5" wide when mounted vertically,so you can still keep the towers relatively narrow, but 8" tall, so even more oomph.
Check it out in Hornresp... It will dig lower than your requirements.
Then, just add a sealed tweeter under it, since the sims show better output with the woofer higher up, and add a small cap to it.
Er, excellent example of its type the Halcyon no doubt is, doesn't it significantly exceed the stated budget, which I read as being up to $200 for a pair of wideband drivers?
Re SB's midbass drivers, many are excellent midbass units & I regularly use them myself in multiways, but they're not designed for anything other than that.
Re SB's midbass drivers, many are excellent midbass units & I regularly use them myself in multiways, but they're not designed for anything other than that.
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Thanks for recomendation.
Have you listened for SPH-60X? How it compares to? My experience with Monacor products is pretty mediocre...
If there is a choice, which would you choose: SPH-60X or W5-1611?
Thanks for recomendation, by the measurements it looks like a solid speaker, but this is exactly what I do not want to build: 2 way, 3 drivers, simple bassreflex(?)... Kit is nice, but with the postage to EU + taxes price will be eye-watering
I prefer locally to CNC cut.Very interesting shape. It will be a little challenge to draw it, but possible candidate for another build. If there is a thread with the build, the link to it will be appreciated. It is too much to go into crossovers for me at the moment, but it could be a candidate for some later times. Thanks.
BTW, is this exact woofer suitable for MLTL?
Yes, it looks not very flat. The price/performance seem nice. Which other SBa woofers do you suggest? From my shallow experience I did not find aluminum cone driver sound nice, maybe even the opposite.
If there is a tweeter in your recommendation with the crossover type and frequency? Keep in mind, I am interested in MLTL most
I thought you said you liked to use HornResp, so I left it out to you to see the sim.
It's very suitable for a MLTL.
And adding a 3.3uF cap on a tweeter does not really qualify as a complicated crossover.
Drawing and cutting the shape is very easy. SBA gives you a cardboard cutout included in the package, so you just use that as the cutout guide.
Attachments
Ouch, I was wrong, this is not bassreflex, but MLTL (or TQWT?) with the speakers at the end of the line. I am not sure that this is a good thing, with most of the measurements showing, that 1/5-1/3 of the line is optimal.
An old one, it being about the nearest thing to a 40-1354 for many years. It has changed a little over time. I avoid subjective assessments though -what I hear, or describe by a given term isn't necessarily what anybody else does. Monacor aren't too bad BTW -not everything is great, and you have to watch the QC, but they have some good units if you choose carefully.
Frankly, I'd rather save up a bit if necessary and get something else; there comes a point where cheaper units can (not invariably, but can) become a false economy. That's not my call though.
End loading provides maximum excitation to the funadamental and all relevant harmonics, so it may require more damping to attenuate the latter. Whether it's an issue or not depends on design details though.
Well I cannot say, that I like Hornresp, just I am not terribly afraid of it anymore
I think I have made smart decision not to make woodworking myself, except the finishing. It is year 2020, CNC technology matured and became affordable, to the level it is cheaper in every way comparing to doing it manually, the only really hard task is to make vector drawing out of those pictures provided by manufacturer.
Is it possible for you to draw the whole "crossover"? It kinda sounds too simple to believe for me. Any matching tweeter suggestion?
Sorry, if you want to use it as a full range, only the aluminium and ceramic responds to 20kHz. You mentioned 40-50Hz. I don't think any other full range has a Fs in that category, which is another way of saying, you are not going to get 40Hz .Very interesting shape. It will be a little challenge to draw it, but possible candidate for another build. If there is a thread with the build, the link to it will be appreciated. It is too much to go into crossovers for me at the moment, but it could be a candidate for some later times. Thanks.
BTW, is this exact woofer suitable for MLTL?
Yes, it looks not very flat. The price/performance seem nice. Which other SBa woofers do you suggest? From my shallow experience I did not find aluminum cone driver sound nice, maybe even the opposite.
If there is a tweeter in your recommendation with the crossover type and frequency? Keep in mind, I am interested in MLTL most
Example the 15NAC30....
The Satoris are another option... but they are above your price range. Example.
MW13PNW-4
Somehow Sbacoustics has been disguising their full range as midwoofers...
Off axis response is not great. But I think in terms of full rangers there is not that much to look at...
Oon
Why not a W5-2143 in a TABAQ? There is a sim for it in the TABAQ thread. A friend of mine built a pair, they sound amazing!
The driver is €71.45 on Soundimports: Buying a Tang Band W5-2143 woofer? - SoundImports
The driver is €71.45 on Soundimports: Buying a Tang Band W5-2143 woofer? - SoundImports
This was unknown knowledge to me, thank you.
Personally I prefer less damping, if that gives satisfactory results.
To my understanding if there are 2 drivers, and both of them lets say, somewhere in the "middle class" and one of them is better in most of the measurements then most of the time that driver is simply better. There is a huge level of subjectivity and taste, but again most of the time measurements confirm the same subjective description. Personal preference is flat response driver. So, if I only can become acquainted with 40-1354 through ebay pics, are Monacors worth risk? Are they suitable for MLTL?
Also you can recommend the more expensive full-range drivers, of course. I will save that knowledge for later builds.
My shallow knowledge did not let me to express clearly: in the TABAQ enclosure speakers which have Fs of ~100Hz generate satisfactory bass in 55-65Hz range, so I am aiming at the bass response with the same level just in 45-55Hz. Just a little deeper and a bit louder without damaging driver and with less distortion is all I need.
Also, as probably most of us, dont care much what is going on above 15kHz...
I'm a big fan of ovals since my earliest days, even in pantograph scaled [Altec] FLH horn alignments and best overall by a 'country mile'
for line arrays, especially with the extreme 4x10".While several posted successful DIY projects in the various forum's early days, folks apparently convinced themselves that it must be much too audibly distorted to accept while wholeheartedly embracing high aspect ratio horns!
GM
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