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View Poll Results: Your favorite 3-4” fullrange driver
Scanspeak 10F 8424 10 27.03%
Dayton RS100 3 8.11%
Fountek FR88ex 3 8.11%
Other 3-4” that’s flat response 1-10k 21 56.76%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 22nd May 2020, 10:43 PM   #101
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Since Geddes posted his distortion experiment results i pay little attention to measured distortion. Not duplicated yet, but it points to the drunk looking for his keys under the streetlight (in the nite) and answers when asked if he lost his keys there he says no, but i can see here kinda thing.

If that is the case, Clio may not lie but it doesn’t tell us anything.

dave
-and even though you often fall-back on this,

It turns-out that others value lower non-linear distortion and IMD.

So yeah, got it. ..and clearly I don't agree.

Besides, Earl's study on this wasn't exactly varied.

Moreover, when he dismisses this aspect - it's usually in context with his own designs (efficient with waveguides and compression drivers) that have overall low non-linear distortion and IMD: particularly with advancing spl.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 12:15 AM   #102
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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10F 2010 test...
-scanspeak10f-jpg

10F = 10WB
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File Type: jpg Scanspeak10F.jpg (216.7 KB, 189 views)
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Last edited by wesayso; 23rd May 2020 at 12:19 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:01 AM   #103
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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and more recent:

Note that all are on test baffles that are overall much larger and not prone to diffraction problems typical for common monitor boxes. This is where the excellent linearity of the driver can be disadvantageous when looking for a driver that will have a flat response on a more common loudspeaker baffle when used broad-band and specifically NOT wanting electronic compensation.

ScanSpeak 10F/8424G00 | HiFiCompass

ScanSpeak 10F/4424G00 | HiFiCompass

5F8422T01-10F8414G10
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Last edited by ScottG; 23rd May 2020 at 04:03 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 04:46 AM   #104
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Since Dave has got some, measurements would be useful instead of the endless blah blah blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Not worth the time to do. Much more important stuff to accomplish.

dave
Since my previous post was removed.

It's worth the time.

Posts claiming that it is not worth the time - really don't respect the time others go into posting.

You've said the driver was "quite colored" (linearity deviation) and that they aren't "matched well" (ie. they suffer from poor manufacturing quality and are unusable as a stereo pair). These are both reasonably objective qualities that could easily be verified with proper measurements.

I've provided at least some evidence of their linearity (even if it was a cherry-picked source), and that at least their 3" measures well from an independent source. This is contrary to "quite colored".

..and let's add to that:

Here is a similar TB 4" but with an inferior motor:

TB SPEAKERS W4-2142 (Full-range 4", 8 Ohm, 50 Wmax)

Again, pretty linear up to almost 4 kHz, and not bad up to 6.5 kHz. Any given axis above this will determine if linearity continues. (..presumably 10 degrees of-axis will give a better response at higher freq.s.)

Moreover when someone claims a driver is colored, it's rarely at the highest octaves as we have here, instead a coloration suggests substantially inferior linearity within most reproduced source's fundamental bandwidth: as in 100 Hz to 3 kHz.

HOWEVER, you have noted that you used them on a Decware DNA horn, and presumably without any filter to correct for the non-linearity of the that particular cabinet (which wasn't designed for the TB driver).

I'd consider a result in a similar cabinet to in fact: be colored, lacking good linearity. Maybe that's what has given you this impression?

We don't know though, because you simply can't spend the time while spending a comparatively prodigious amount of time posting on this forum.



So then, is this post more to your (or some other mod's) liking?
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:12 AM   #105
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
It's worth the time.
It may be worth your time, send me the token i am asking and you can test them. With all the rehab i am doing i am not getting my work done in a timely manner, to waste something i have already set aside is just stupid. I did measure the T/S which are not that close. That alone is enuff for me to rejectthem from consideration.

Quote:
You've said the driver was "quite colored”
My opinion, take it for what it is worth.

And trying to pigeon hole “coloured” into a metric based on linearity (i assume you essentially mean FR) is very short-sighted.

Quote:
Moreover when someone claims a driver is colored, it's rarely at the highest octaves as we have here, instead a coloration suggests substantially inferior linearity within most reproduced source's fundamental bandwidth: as in 100 Hz to 3 kHz.
You are making a whole lot of assumptions there that would mean you have access to what that listener’s ear/brain perceives.

You have said a lot of words, but not said much.

dave
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Old 23rd May 2020, 06:17 AM   #106
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perceval View Post
But measurements could be misinterpreted ....
So much easier to just talk about it without anything to back it up.

It seems so
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Old 23rd May 2020, 07:50 AM   #107
ScottG is offline ScottG  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
It may be worth your time, send me the token i am asking and you can test them. With all the rehab i am doing i am not getting my work done in a timely manner, to waste something i have already set aside is just stupid. I did measure the T/S which are not that close. That alone is enuff for me to rejectthem from consideration.



My opinion, take it for what it is worth.

And trying to pigeon hole “coloured” into a metric based on linearity (i assume you essentially mean FR) is very short-sighted.



You are making a whole lot of assumptions there that would mean you have access to what that listener’s ear/brain perceives.

You have said a lot of words, but not said much.

dave

Hmm, I'd say you've just said a "lot of words": spending a fair amount of time on this post alone.

This isn't a matter dredging-up something you've set aside, rather it's providing some objective evidence to your claims. If you really didn't want to discuss something you've set aside, you shouldn't have made the comment.

The T/S parameters being not "close"? In what respect, and how?

I've tested drivers with Dayton's DAT's over the years and they rarely test as described in the spec. sheet - usually Fs (being higher), Qe (being higher), Sensitivity (being lower), and Qm (being lower); in that order of typical results even after some "burn-in". Not close in that respect?

Or perhaps it's that they didn't have similar spec.s between drivers? If so, what was at least the single-most prominent glaring fault between the driver's results? ..and yes, with just a modicum of detail that anyone can say "sure, that's a problem".

Or maybe in some other respect?



..and now you want to debate the general meaning of colored sound?

I'm not short-sighted on this, it's far-and-away describing non-linearity of the driver's freq. response. IF that's not the intent, surely the person describing it as "colored" would at least take a very brief amount of time to describe this novel new definition and how it applies to the discussed driver. But no, apparently you'd rather obfuscate what you exactly mean by suggesting I'm a fool for making such an absurdly reasonable assumption.

As, for what I've said:

1. I'm asking for some sort of reasonable objective evidence to your claims.

2. I've provided some evidence of the alternative. I'm not saying it's great evidence, but at least it's something.

BTW, though utterly subjective evidence: there didn't seem to be a lot of buyer's remorse in the comments section for that driver at Partsexpress. Usually you'll find more negative comments for any given driver. I rather liked the "pretentiously expensive" comment, given the price for the 3" is half that of the 4" I'd say it was spot-on. The "initial distort when playing loud" comment could suggest a problem (with perhaps the listener just becoming accustomed to it to some degree), or it could have some basis in reality with a spider that needs a lot of work-in (..I actually experienced something similar to that with the Fostex ESR's, both lower freq. compression from near zero excursion (very stiff spider initially) and a whizer that was so stiff that the treble response exhibited more bandwidth-exaggerated-hash (broader band peaks and nulls) - almost as if it was coated with some sort of "stiff" compound, and that aspect took a LOT more time to settle-out to a more averaged response, though it's still pretty "ragged" on the top).

Tang Band W4-1879 4" Full-Range Driver
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Last edited by ScottG; 23rd May 2020 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 23rd May 2020, 08:10 AM   #108
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottG View Post
The T/S parameters being not "close"? In what respect, and how?
Let’s start hereL Fs = 82.768 and 62.409.

dave
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Old 23rd May 2020, 09:44 PM   #109
nas3000 is offline nas3000  Lithuania
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I am really late into conversation, but RS100-8 especially and Founteks with the alluminum cone by its sound is very very different from the other drivers. It may be because the ringing of the cone or by metal material properties. My small suggestion would be to divide speaker into paper/metal/other by their cone material - the sound differs a lot.

The others which may be of some interrest: FRS8-8 - the sound somehow reminds cheap BT boomboxes..., PS95-8 - very pronounced highs, crisp and detailed, both FaitalPRO 3'' - they have much much more punch than its written in their specification.
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Old 24th May 2020, 12:59 AM   #110
mayhem13 is offline mayhem13  United States
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Again, there’s something to be said for the subjective......professional studio monitors rarely employ aluminum midrange/midwoofers.

Last edited by planet10; 24th May 2020 at 01:01 AM. Reason: remove excess quote
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