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Anyone with experience with this 12 inch speaker
Anyone with experience with this 12 inch speaker
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:32 AM   #21
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Precisely. Front horns are not all the same, just as not all vented boxes, sealed boxes etc. are the same, so there is no 'one size fits all' set of driver characteristics that will be ideal in every type. What you need ultimately depends on exactly what you are trying to achieve. For a given Fs, Vas, as your -3dB mass corner frequency (take 2Fs / [effective] Qts) lowers, the narrower the usable horn loading bandwidth becomes, and the larger the enclosure is likely to be. But this is broad brushstrokes: as noted, it depends what, precisely, you are trying to do.
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 14th February 2020 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 14th February 2020, 10:58 AM   #22
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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Hi Gents,
Thank you again for the kind advice. Hi Kaffimann noted & understand as with Scott's reply

: A chambered back loaded horn is in essence best viewed as an extreme variation of a vented box or bass reflex. Ergo, if a driver is suitable for a vented box, it is also suited to a back horn. Contrary to widespread myth.

Here it is clear that I can choose a driver which works on vented box, plug in the parameters say in Hornsrep to optimize it's performance in a BLH enclosure.

I must apologies that I've drifted from my original question as Im hoping that you Gurus can tutor me more on horn speakers especially FLH which to me is a still a dark cloud.
Let's assume that Im looking for a 12 inch woofer to build a W bass bin with F3 of 50hz & upper cut off of around 400 hz. What specs should I be looking for in a woofer that's suitable, what I've read so far is Q lower then 0.35, low Vas & EBP of around 100 or so.
Perhaps all that I've read is no longer applicable for modern drivers .

Thank you again Gents for being so patient in tutoring me the noob.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:14 PM   #23
KaffiMann is offline KaffiMann  Norway
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Anyone with experience with this 12 inch speaker
Martin J. King is a good source:
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design

He doesn't sell the mathcad spreadsheets anymore, but there's a lot of good theory on there.

Another source for software: I think hornresp is pretty good.
The good part about hornresp is the relative ease and simplicity, I think it's a great place to start.
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Old 14th February 2020, 02:38 PM   #24
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumotan View Post
Here it is clear that I can choose a driver which works on vented box, plug in the parameters say in Hornsrep to optimize it's performance in a BLH enclosure.
Basically correct.

Quote:
I must apologies that I've drifted from my original question as Im hoping that you Gurus can tutor me more on horn speakers especially FLH which to me is a still a dark cloud.
Let's assume that Im looking for a 12 inch woofer to build a W bass bin with F3 of 50hz & upper cut off of around 400 hz. What specs should I be looking for in a woofer that's suitable, what I've read so far is Q lower then 0.35, low Vas & EBP of around 100 or so.
There are no gurus here. Anybody who considers themselves an expert on any subject by definition is not one.

What size, what sensitivity / efficiency & dynamic range objectives, what amplifier output impedance, what radiation space (i.e. is it for use away from boundaries, near a wall or corner), is it required to be impedance matched down to Fc etc.?

An effective Qt of < 0.35, a 'low' (definition unspecified) Vas are not requirements, though they can keep box size down to a point. I would also suggest that you make sure the driver itself has a reasonable response over the target range & to preferably an octave above it. T/S parameters only cover one part of behaviour. EBP is a quick & dirty approximation & is basically of little use; people read far more into it than it's worth so my standard advice is to forget about it.

Quote:
Perhaps all that I've read is no longer applicable for modern drivers .
All moving coil drivers since the originals work in more or less the same way as they always did; no real changes on that front.
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:17 PM   #25
sumotan is offline sumotan  Indonesia
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Thank You again Kaffimann & Scott. Just read Martin's article on FLH getting to undertsand a little more.

Scott thanks for your comments & questionaires. Will have to digest & sleep over it. lol
2 horn speakers has always close to my heart La Scala & Altec A7 unfortunately I don't have a large listening space to house them. Hence my orginal thoughts of going 12inch BLH.

Once again thank you both kindly.
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Old 14th February 2020, 03:44 PM   #26
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Anybody who considers themselves an expert on any subject by definition is not one.
Is that your expert opinion?
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Old 14th February 2020, 04:42 PM   #27
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Opinion, yes. Fortunately not expert.
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:40 PM   #28
ihan is offline ihan  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaffiMann View Post
Martin J. King is a good source:
Quarter Wavelength Loudspeaker Design

He doesn't sell the mathcad spreadsheets anymore, but there's a lot of good theory on there.

Another source for software: I think hornresp is pretty good.
The good part about hornresp is the relative ease and simplicity, I think it's a great place to start.
Hi KaffiMann,

Are you a member of Martin's facebook groups? If so, does he offer any more modern design tools (than his old mathcad spreadsheets)?

Thanks,
Ian
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Old 14th February 2020, 05:56 PM   #29
Fenalaar is offline Fenalaar  Norway
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No. Hornresp or Leonard Audios Transmission Line are the usual tools, these days.

Johan-Kr
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Old 14th February 2020, 06:10 PM   #30
ihan is offline ihan  England
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Johan-Kr,

Thanks for the info. Cheers, Ian.
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