Alpair 10.3 dual help.

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Hello.

I have made a pair of pencils with the alpair 10p, and i
love them.
Now i have bought 2 pairs of alpair 10.3m, and i wonder
if there is any good encloseures with dual elements in
them? or a good encloseure that goes lower than the pencil.
Room is about 27m2.
I have looked around on the Internet, but have not found any with dual alpair 10.
Sorry for my english 😊

Best regards.

Paul
 
In theory the FS is 38 and going lower is not possible, but these drivers can be tuned lower than their fs (altough not a lot) if you keep the power down.

I use one of my sets in 30L ported cabinet with F3 of 35Hz and an FS of 28Hz now, and that works if i don't use more than 20w with it. More watt does distort as the driver goes in overexcursion. And that bass is not the most punchy and accurate bass, but it's there. For a real accurate and low bass you need to use this driver in a waw config (with an extra subwoofer) like i do with my other set of Alpair 10M gen 3 drivers.

2 drivers in one box is possible, a 50L ported box tuned to 40Hz is what i would do with it if i needed that. Download (the free) WinISD and you can simulate it yourself with the T/S parameters how that goes. WinISD - Linearteam
 
50 litres to 40Hz? For 2 x 10.3? :scratch1: With what amplifier output impedance or equivalent series R (since I can't imagine a consulting designer as I believe you mentioned you are would recommend that as a quality alignment with a voltage source)? To be honest, even factoring variable quantities of that in, I can't find it meeting anything I would consider a good alignment, so presumably I'm missing something.
 
Now i have bought 2 pairs of alpair 10.3m, and i wonder if there is any good encloseures with dual elements in them? or a good encloseure that goes lower than the pencil.
Room is about 27m2. I have looked around on the Internet, but have not found any with dual alpair 10.
Sorry for my english ��

Nothing wrong with your English Paul. My ancestry is Norwegian & I'm ashamed to say I can't speak a word of it or any other current language. A little Anglo-Saxon (old English) is about all I've got.

Be that as it may, speaking for myself, I've not done a twin driver 10.3 enclosure because in MA terms the driver is getting on a bit (they have a short product cycle, for better or worse), and nobody ever requested it. I'll work one up for you if you like though. Would you prefer a floorstander or standmount?
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
2 drivers in one box is possible, a 50L ported box

50 litres! Most i’ll put them in is 13 litre per driver.

FHXL does go a bit lower than Pensil, and the stacked ones use more of the room for mouth augmentation so goes even lower.

You can double any single enclosure. I have done a Twin Mar-Ken for the A10p and A10.2, no-one has yet asked for the A10.3.

Pensils could be stacked one upside down on the other, or double the cross-section and load 2 drivers. Two Silburys side by side.

Most of the time you will roll of one of the drivers above a certain frequency. With a speaker like the Twin FHXL with its high gain in the bass, a series connection with a shunt cap across 1 of them probably works best.

Here are the wiring options: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/Dual-Driver-Wiring.pdf

One can also achieve most of the benefits of 1 driver up high with a bipole or semi-bipole. One could also do a castle-like arrangement with boxes that don’t mind drivers at the top of the box.

dave
 
Thank you very much for the replies ❤
If you would like that scottmoose i would be very happy.
Im a floorstander type, i like those big beutyfull boxes 😁
Been "following" you and planet10 here for some time, and
im amazed over the effort you guys put in for helping us dumb
newbies, a big thanks to you and lots of gratitude.

Best regards.
 
Not especially in this case; without any specific criteria being given, I try to keep things relatively conventional / compact in terms of dimensions / profile. Like the attached. This is assuming a voltage source amp with about 0.5ohms series R for wiring, connections etc. which is fairly typical.
 

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Not especially in this case; without any specific criteria being given, I try to keep things relatively conventional / compact in terms of dimensions / profile. Like the attached. This is assuming a voltage source amp with about 0.5ohms series R for wiring, connections etc. which is fairly typical.

Something like this is probally the best solution for a compact floorstander with 2 drivers. The size is right (46L) and the port could be right to be tuned to 40Hz or something in that region.

50 litres! Most i’ll put them in is 13 litre per driver.

With 13L for 1 driver? Then your F3 is 55Hz, that is too high for a full range floorstander. Most want it to hit 40Hz, and some like me even lower... If you use it in a waw config, then it's good, but not on it's own...

And those 50L is for a dual driver cabinet, single driver is more like 20-25L depending on the tuning. Scottmoose also uses 46L for his dual driver design so that is not so extreme...
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
OK, your low bass shelf alignment is a valid choice. Perhaps more so for subwoofers.

I’m not a big fan. The broad 2 dB is right where the real meat is. (Note: Hi-friction vents knock off the peak just before roll-off in the smaller box).

attachment.php


Toole has shown us that the F3 is a useless metric for humans. We should be talking F6/F10 ~ 35/41 in yours, about 10 hz higher in mine. If i want to go lower i’ll put them or in FHXL (~35 Hz F10 w gain).

dave
 

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Note also that the box I did above is an MLTL variation, not a pure Helmholtz vented, ergo the alignment is dissimilar, and with voltage source amplification I would not use this cabinet volume if I were not employing QW loading to tailor the alignment. This further assumes 1/2 ohm series R for wiring, connections &c.

Edit: Dave beat me to it, but F3 is an essentially meaningless value other than for its mathematical aspects, with F6 and F10 being more practical guides to in-room behaviour, but AFAIK, there are no minimum requirements for it. Not that it matters, assuming a voltage source amplifier with about 0.5 ohms series R, I wouldn't be inclined to go beyond about 16 litres for a single 10.3 in a conventional Helmholtz, only increasing to about 25 litres if a high output impedance SET or equivalent SS amplifier were used, with the tuning adapted accordingly.
 
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OK, your low bass shelf alignment is a valid choice. Perhaps more so for subwoofers.

I’m not a big fan. The broad 2 dB is right where the real meat is. (Note: Hi-friction vents knock off the peak just before roll-off in the smaller box).

777403d1566716941-alpair-10-3-dual-help-a103-minio0-lowbassshelf-png


Toole has shown us that the F3 is a useless metric for humans. We should be talking F6/F10 ~ 35/41 in yours, about 10 hz higher in mine. If i want to go lower i’ll put them or in FHXL (~35 Hz F10 w gain).

dave

I know about F3 (I always look more at F6 or F10), but that is what most people look at and think is important, so it is in a certain way. But i tune my speakers to a certain F10, mostly, not an F3

But why do you think a bigger box is bad for this driver when used without woofer? It works very well for me, but i'm always open to hear what is the story behind that choice.

I tried a 13L ported box, and that did not work (high fs and high distortion), so then i tried a 20L box wich was better, and now it's a 25L box wich is even better. I amplify with a Prima Luna Prologue 4 wich is a 32w PP tube amp with EL34 tubes... But even with my very mainstream Marantz PM5004 (SS AB class) amp it works better than the smaller speakers with the same driver. It does not like the different class D amps (going from Nad M22 (Hypex Ncore) and Nad C268 (Hypex UcD) to TA2024 based amps and a small Crown XTi 1002) i tried with it altough. But the 13L box did not work with those neighter.
 
This is what happens when you don't keep a proper catalogue of your own work. Ploughing through a folder of work-in-progress & misc. designs, I ran across this, which I worked up last December. :sigh:

I slightly prefer the new one; the doubled front baffle gives the drivers a solid platform to work against, and looking over this, it was done targeting a maximally flat alignment with a very stiff solid state amplifier and some spacing off from the front wall. YMMV though.
 

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frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
I know about F3… but that is what most people look at and think is important, so it is in a certain way.

Something that all those who now need to stamp out. You should stop using it.

It works very well for me

That is all that is important.

I tried a 13L ported box, and that did not work

It only really works much better w high R vents… i rarely use conventional ports, I like the elegance & finesse that high R vents bring.

(high fs and high distortion)

All the miniOnkens are noted for their good bass, just yesterday i blew away a guy with a set of 2.5 litre Mar-Kens that might get to 65-70 hz on a good day. The reproduction of the bass was sufficient for him and we played stuff with BASS. Most of what people call bass is in 80-160 hz octave. If a speaker does that well the brain will fill in fundementals (if they are missing).

A speaker design is all about compromises.

dave
 
Most of what people call bass is in 80-160 hz octave. If a speaker does that well the brain will fill in fundementals (if they are missing).

A speaker design is all about compromises.

For many it does, but not for me. I listen to dub and the 85-32Hz region is essential for me. That is where the bass of a dubtune has it’s fundamental and without those frequencies you can’t feel the dub. Idem with jungle and so on...
 
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