I'm looking with a lot of interest to this driver, and heared it in a 12v reggaesoundsystem in a large (360L) ported box with a 300w class D amp sounding very good.
I was wondering, for my living room and with the 100-98dB/1W/1m (depending on the source) if this speaker could be used with a low power SE amp. I have a EL-84 3W SE amp here that i could use for it. In theory i should have enough headroom on the amp (i mostly listen at 70-85dB at home) for it. But will that be enough to move that heavy cone and get real subbass out of it? Does anybody have experience with it with a low power amp, prefereable a SE of a few watts?
A 360L ported box models very good with this driver (or at least the pusblished T/S parameters), flat till mid 30's and F10 at +/- 26Hz...
I was wondering, for my living room and with the 100-98dB/1W/1m (depending on the source) if this speaker could be used with a low power SE amp. I have a EL-84 3W SE amp here that i could use for it. In theory i should have enough headroom on the amp (i mostly listen at 70-85dB at home) for it. But will that be enough to move that heavy cone and get real subbass out of it? Does anybody have experience with it with a low power amp, prefereable a SE of a few watts?
A 360L ported box models very good with this driver (or at least the pusblished T/S parameters), flat till mid 30's and F10 at +/- 26Hz...
Last edited:
As far as the amplifier is concerned the weight of the driver cone in & of itself is neither here nor there; ease of drive is simply a question of driver sensitivity & the impedance load presented.
Keep in mind with your box alignment that you'll need to factor in the output impedance of your amplifier, which will have the effect of artificially raising the effective Q. 2.5ohms isn't particularly unusual for a single-ended amp, sometimes increasing to 4ohms or beyond.
Keep in mind with your box alignment that you'll need to factor in the output impedance of your amplifier, which will have the effect of artificially raising the effective Q. 2.5ohms isn't particularly unusual for a single-ended amp, sometimes increasing to 4ohms or beyond.
I’m very interested in hearing some first hand experiences of this speaker too !
Waxx, why do you stick to the 12" when the 15-300TC has a much flatter curve below 100hz and should put out bass more easily ? It isn’t a lot more expensive and if you consider a 360l enclosure, space doesn’t seem to be an issue too !
Waxx, why do you stick to the 12" when the 15-300TC has a much flatter curve below 100hz and should put out bass more easily ? It isn’t a lot more expensive and if you consider a 360l enclosure, space doesn’t seem to be an issue too !
Just over a year ago, I built a pair of 80L sealed boxes for my Fane 12-250TC drivers.
They are powered by a 1W single tube OTL amp and are capable of rattling my living room windows.
To be honest, they are so good in my room, that I can’t see me ever getting rid of them.
On the end of a tube amplifier, in a big ported box (or even better, aperiodic) these drivers ought to sound stunning.
I’ll never be able to accommodate such big cabs, so I can only dream, unfortunately.
They are powered by a 1W single tube OTL amp and are capable of rattling my living room windows.
To be honest, they are so good in my room, that I can’t see me ever getting rid of them.
On the end of a tube amplifier, in a big ported box (or even better, aperiodic) these drivers ought to sound stunning.
I’ll never be able to accommodate such big cabs, so I can only dream, unfortunately.
Last edited:
The sim i did gave me accurate bass untill 30hz on a smaller footprint. The 15 needs a case of 750l to do the same, vs a 360l for the 12. And that is too big for my space
Didn’t know that there was such a difference in volume between the 12" and the 15", but it’s logical when you think of it. Adding 3" in diameter adds roughly 63 square inches more cone area...
They have a very high Re and minimum impedance of 7,2 and 7,4 Ohm compared to other '8 Ohm' drivers, a ~6,5 Ohm Re is the average '8 Ohm' driver. It's 98dB on 2,83V up to 1,5kHz but on 1W actual power it's 100dB. Further deviations can come from the averaging (which frequency range is choosen). So no mystery there, plenty of spl either way.
With 3W you'll reach ~102 dB with the 12-250TC. That's more than the average party.
For the bass the damping factor is important but also the principle of the enclosure. With a ~100l sealed enclosure you'll have a quite defined and 'quick' impulse answer in the bass, -3dB is at 58Hz, which doesn't sound impressive by reading it but the -8dB point is at ~39Hz, -10dB@35Hz, which actually IS impressive, especally because that's even without the roomgain.
In most rooms the sealed enclosure sounds a lot better, more precise and defined. With the high Qts you could also build a transmissionline, it will be smaller than the ported version. I presume you'd likely more satisfied with the more precise 100-150l sealed enclosure which slope combined with your roomgain will likely result in a mostly flat response down to 30Hz.
Bass is very box dependent and the 15 really needs a MUCH larger box (or a wall into the next room)
dave
Yes, that's ofcourse right. The Vas is directly dependent on the Sd (cone surface) and since the 15" got (naturally) a much larger cone surface AND an even higher Qts, it will automatically need a much, MUCH larger enclosure.
I've listened to Steve Cresswell's Speakers on two occasions in the same venue, at a HiFi Clubs annual event approximately a year apart.
I have found them on both occasions very listenable and do one day intend on building a version of them, using the 12" drivers.
I think these could be the best speakers for Blues Music I could imagine, I recall getting lost in the moment at each audition.
I can very much believe they raise their performance at home with Steve.
I have found them on both occasions very listenable and do one day intend on building a version of them, using the 12" drivers.
I think these could be the best speakers for Blues Music I could imagine, I recall getting lost in the moment at each audition.
I can very much believe they raise their performance at home with Steve.
Thanks John
Yep, the speakers are great at home. It is mainly the bass performance that is the difference between home and the Owston venue. The bass goes deep clean and quick when the cabs are placed next to a rear wall.
I guess it's semantics since Vas increases with increasing driver [Sd] and/or its compliance [Cms]:
Vas = 0.0014 * Sd^2 * Cms
Where:
Vas -> l (liters).
Sd -> cm2.
Cms -> mm/N.
GM
No, there are literally just two factors. Sd and cms (suspension compilance)
The formula is:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Since ρ is the density of air (1.184 kg/m3 at 25 °C), and c is the speed of sound (346.1 m/s at 25 °C), which changes with the enviroment but always within a certain range, it is only dependent on the suspension and the cone surface.
That's because said drivers got completely different parameters with monster Mms to get a low fs despite the extremely stiff suspension and take high losses, bad impulse response and low spl as a hit for that. If you got the same parameters except the membrane surface, the bigger one will always have automatically a bigger Vas.
I did not say it's not also dependent on the compilance. But you said:
And I said that's wrong because it's simple math and just two factors. It's only cms and Sd. Not 'so many other factors'. Please read up at what the parameters do and what's dependent on what.
You need to state your requirements / how you define 'well working'. Steve loves his sealed boxes for example, as they suit his personal situation and taste, but they are far from being to all tastes or suited to all conditions, so it really does come down to what you're tying to achieve in your particular system.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.