I'd like to install a full range driver into a Sony SS-TL1 Transmission line speaker cabinet (pictured below).
Any recommendations for a likely compatible 6 1/2 driver?
(This was a Goodwill find I couldn't resist for $30 {it's an Audio Karma sensibility}. I re-foamed the original cheap drivers and the sound is OK but unremarkable... except for the bass performance which is amazingly extended and deep... especially considering the cheap stamped basket mid-woofer, so now I MUST leverage the aesthetic and engineering of this REAL TL cabinet!
Cabinet Specifications:
*The overall cabinet size is 9 1/8" wide X 36 5/8" tall X 11 1/2" deep.
*Wall thickness is about 5/8"
* I guess this is considered a single-fold. The interior looks just like the illustration with a centered vertical wall inside running the full cabinet width and running parallel to the driver faces. (no angled corners or diagonal bias). See illustration below.
So any suggestions?
I could potentially experiment with more than one driver - especially if I purchase on eBay. Another source is PE of course. I really believe their Tang Band drivers offer great value and they have at least three options. (They have a great engineering / materials sciences story and the Asian production efficiencies).
Tang Band W6-2313 6-1/2" Coaxial Full-Range Woofer
Dayton Audio PS65LP-4 6-1/2" Ultra Efficient Low Profile Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm
Tang Band W6-2144 6-1/2" Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
The house brand, Dayton also seems like a good driver:
Dayton Audio PS180-8 6-1/2" Point Source Full-Range Neo Driver
OK. I read enough here about TL designs to realize I don't know WTF I'm doing... like this thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/337486-help-designing-tl-speaker.html
But I'm still hoping, there's some good starting point drivers to experiment with.
Original woofer with bad foam
Re-foam then add gasket
Restored to original but these REALLY need better drivers! Seems Ideal for a Full Range Driver
Manufacturer's manual
This is the interior
Any recommendations for a likely compatible 6 1/2 driver?
(This was a Goodwill find I couldn't resist for $30 {it's an Audio Karma sensibility}. I re-foamed the original cheap drivers and the sound is OK but unremarkable... except for the bass performance which is amazingly extended and deep... especially considering the cheap stamped basket mid-woofer, so now I MUST leverage the aesthetic and engineering of this REAL TL cabinet!
Cabinet Specifications:
*The overall cabinet size is 9 1/8" wide X 36 5/8" tall X 11 1/2" deep.
*Wall thickness is about 5/8"
* I guess this is considered a single-fold. The interior looks just like the illustration with a centered vertical wall inside running the full cabinet width and running parallel to the driver faces. (no angled corners or diagonal bias). See illustration below.
So any suggestions?
I could potentially experiment with more than one driver - especially if I purchase on eBay. Another source is PE of course. I really believe their Tang Band drivers offer great value and they have at least three options. (They have a great engineering / materials sciences story and the Asian production efficiencies).
Tang Band W6-2313 6-1/2" Coaxial Full-Range Woofer
Dayton Audio PS65LP-4 6-1/2" Ultra Efficient Low Profile Full-Range Driver 4 Ohm
Tang Band W6-2144 6-1/2" Paper Cone Full Range Driver 8 Ohm
The house brand, Dayton also seems like a good driver:
Dayton Audio PS180-8 6-1/2" Point Source Full-Range Neo Driver
OK. I read enough here about TL designs to realize I don't know WTF I'm doing... like this thread:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/337486-help-designing-tl-speaker.html
But I'm still hoping, there's some good starting point drivers to experiment with.
Original woofer with bad foam
Re-foam then add gasket
Restored to original but these REALLY need better drivers! Seems Ideal for a Full Range Driver
Manufacturer's manual
This is the interior
Great input. I took some measurements:
Vent Dimensions are: 7.5 X 2.625 (2 5/8) = 28.125 square inches
The vent offset from the bottom is about 0.625 (5/8);
The vent opening from the top of the cabinet it's about 31.75"
+
+
Driver offset from the top of the cabinet is about 6"
(about 1.25 from each side and 23.75 from the bottom)
+
+
Regarding the placement of the partition, I'll need to take some more measurements...
Great info on the TB drivers. I'm definitely leaning towards trying one of those or maybe even one of their highly rated 5" models. I will look at the specs you mention.
Vent Dimensions are: 7.5 X 2.625 (2 5/8) = 28.125 square inches
The vent offset from the bottom is about 0.625 (5/8);
The vent opening from the top of the cabinet it's about 31.75"
+
+
Driver offset from the top of the cabinet is about 6"
(about 1.25 from each side and 23.75 from the bottom)
+
+
Regarding the placement of the partition, I'll need to take some more measurements...
Great info on the TB drivers. I'm definitely leaning towards trying one of those or maybe even one of their highly rated 5" models. I will look at the specs you mention.
Tang Band W5-2143.
I finally installed a full-range driver. I selected the W5-2143 based upon reviews of superlative performance, impressive frequency response graphs, and some hopeful thinking that it would be work well in the Sony cabinet. Overall, I'd say project success (but leaving open the possibility of tweaking). I'll share more about the sound later...
Building the Baffle
I had some easy to work with softwood in my garage - left over from another project. I decided that I'd create a single baffle to cover up all the old business of the original speaker.
I don't have professional workbench, but handheld jigsaw and router came in handy for cutting the holes for flush mounting and rounding out the edges.
Finally, I stained the baffle to match other furniture in the room (although they doesn't exactly match the cabinet - yet!)
"NOT Crossover"
Per recommendations to add a Zobel filter (for purposes of stabilizing the amplifier load at high frequencies - and better overall performance), I add a capacitor of 0.33 uf capacitor and an 8 ohm resistor
(The recommendation was actually for a 7.8 ohm resistor; leads broke off when I started stringing resistor together...so I just went with the 8 ohm - it's only a 2.5% difference so not sure if this really matters much)
I use the original terminal cups. The original crossover was relative easy to remove and soldered in the Zobel filter and speaker leads.
I finally installed a full-range driver. I selected the W5-2143 based upon reviews of superlative performance, impressive frequency response graphs, and some hopeful thinking that it would be work well in the Sony cabinet. Overall, I'd say project success (but leaving open the possibility of tweaking). I'll share more about the sound later...
Building the Baffle
I had some easy to work with softwood in my garage - left over from another project. I decided that I'd create a single baffle to cover up all the old business of the original speaker.
I don't have professional workbench, but handheld jigsaw and router came in handy for cutting the holes for flush mounting and rounding out the edges.
Finally, I stained the baffle to match other furniture in the room (although they doesn't exactly match the cabinet - yet!)
"NOT Crossover"
Per recommendations to add a Zobel filter (for purposes of stabilizing the amplifier load at high frequencies - and better overall performance), I add a capacitor of 0.33 uf capacitor and an 8 ohm resistor
(The recommendation was actually for a 7.8 ohm resistor; leads broke off when I started stringing resistor together...so I just went with the 8 ohm - it's only a 2.5% difference so not sure if this really matters much)
I use the original terminal cups. The original crossover was relative easy to remove and soldered in the Zobel filter and speaker leads.
Mounting the Baffle
Attaching the new baffle to the cabinet *in a non-destructive way* turned out to be a pain.
*I created mounting wedges to place inside the cabinet with the idea of mounting the new baffle to these wedges using the same holes as the driver (instead of drilling new holes elsewhere in the baffle)
* I also used blue tack - both to hold the baffle and also to complete seal it to the cabinet.
*The initial attempt at using threaded inserted failed miserably due to cross-threading binding. (could be faulty hardware - not really sure)
I then just went to plain old #8 wood screws/sheetmetal screws attached to wood (after I re-inforced the wedges)
Performance
I'll share a little more later... I think the cabinet is "reasonably" well-matched - at least based upon subjective listening to various comprehensive frequency sweeps below 150 hz. Will update more later.
Attaching the new baffle to the cabinet *in a non-destructive way* turned out to be a pain.
*I created mounting wedges to place inside the cabinet with the idea of mounting the new baffle to these wedges using the same holes as the driver (instead of drilling new holes elsewhere in the baffle)
* I also used blue tack - both to hold the baffle and also to complete seal it to the cabinet.
*The initial attempt at using threaded inserted failed miserably due to cross-threading binding. (could be faulty hardware - not really sure)
I then just went to plain old #8 wood screws/sheetmetal screws attached to wood (after I re-inforced the wedges)
Performance
I'll share a little more later... I think the cabinet is "reasonably" well-matched - at least based upon subjective listening to various comprehensive frequency sweeps below 150 hz. Will update more later.
Nicely done! 
FWIW, in comparing the W6-2144 I 'chose' originally Vs this one, an easy way to compare is by doing a simple vented alignment [Vb = 20*Vas*Qts^3.3] or ~142.9 L Vs ~23.5 L, so assuming published specs are reasonably accurate the cab is ~6x too large, i.e. severely under damped, i.e. [mid] bass [much] more rolled off in comparison.
GM
FWIW, in comparing the W6-2144 I 'chose' originally Vs this one, an easy way to compare is by doing a simple vented alignment [Vb = 20*Vas*Qts^3.3] or ~142.9 L Vs ~23.5 L, so assuming published specs are reasonably accurate the cab is ~6x too large, i.e. severely under damped, i.e. [mid] bass [much] more rolled off in comparison.
GM
~6X too large!?!
That's not even close! OK. I give myself a B for (amateur class) craftsmanship, but probably not a passing grade on the engineering...! Maybe I go back and measure the cabinet properly as earlier advised...
(and maybe I need to learn how to use that design software)
In any event:
*I thought I was in the ballpark. The happy campers at PE seem to be using similar sized cabinets...
*Regarding the sound I'm getting. Yes. It is a somewhat "thin" sounding. Midbass slightly week, but the speaker doesn't sound grossly imbalanced. I ran several frequency sweeps and this is what I heard:
-- Useable, noticeable bass starts at about 35 to 40 hz the bass is relatively even from about 50 hz to 120 hz or so (maybe 150 hz) with the exception of a pronouned dip/null between about 70hz and 80hz (maybe the room)
-- Response below 120 hz to 150 hz - while mostly even and audible - probably shelved below the upper bass and lower midrange? underdamped?
-- The midrange is excellent but I do hear a very slight depression in the upper mids - barely noticeable. It's almost not noticeble at all (and easy to forget about) when I switched to a tube preamp and when the speakers are angled directly into the listening position
--- The lower treble seems a tiny bit "brash" - and that's probably too strong a word - let's say "slightly prominent" but maybe the drivers are still breaking in. The tube preamp also seemed to mitigate this.
--- Upper treble ("air" / "sparkle") isn't quite there, but this doesn't detract from overall presentation
That's not even close! OK. I give myself a B for (amateur class) craftsmanship, but probably not a passing grade on the engineering...! Maybe I go back and measure the cabinet properly as earlier advised...
(and maybe I need to learn how to use that design software)
In any event:
*I thought I was in the ballpark. The happy campers at PE seem to be using similar sized cabinets...
*Regarding the sound I'm getting. Yes. It is a somewhat "thin" sounding. Midbass slightly week, but the speaker doesn't sound grossly imbalanced. I ran several frequency sweeps and this is what I heard:
-- Useable, noticeable bass starts at about 35 to 40 hz the bass is relatively even from about 50 hz to 120 hz or so (maybe 150 hz) with the exception of a pronouned dip/null between about 70hz and 80hz (maybe the room)
-- Response below 120 hz to 150 hz - while mostly even and audible - probably shelved below the upper bass and lower midrange? underdamped?
-- The midrange is excellent but I do hear a very slight depression in the upper mids - barely noticeable. It's almost not noticeble at all (and easy to forget about) when I switched to a tube preamp and when the speakers are angled directly into the listening position
--- The lower treble seems a tiny bit "brash" - and that's probably too strong a word - let's say "slightly prominent" but maybe the drivers are still breaking in. The tube preamp also seemed to mitigate this.
--- Upper treble ("air" / "sparkle") isn't quite there, but this doesn't detract from overall presentation
...so GM, do my observations roughly correlate with the math and science here?
No sure where to go with the next iteration.
Keep the cabinet? Or Keep the driver?
Keeping the cabinet? The W6-2144 noted as compatible with the cabinet doesn't seem to have the following...
Keeping the driver? I wouldn't know where to get a smaller scale TL cabinet.
I'd have to consider building a TL cabinet from scratch - based on a proven design (or new design).
(maybe not insurmountable. I do have the tools to cut wood in relatively straight lines, make holes, and glue things together)
Another option is to simply go with a bass reflex enclosure. Appropriately-sized used speakers / cabinets are probably easy to find and cheap... and likely easy to adapt to the correct sized ports / tubes for bass reflex.
No sure where to go with the next iteration.
Keep the cabinet? Or Keep the driver?
Keeping the cabinet? The W6-2144 noted as compatible with the cabinet doesn't seem to have the following...
Keeping the driver? I wouldn't know where to get a smaller scale TL cabinet.
I'd have to consider building a TL cabinet from scratch - based on a proven design (or new design).
(maybe not insurmountable. I do have the tools to cut wood in relatively straight lines, make holes, and glue things together)
Another option is to simply go with a bass reflex enclosure. Appropriately-sized used speakers / cabinets are probably easy to find and cheap... and likely easy to adapt to the correct sized ports / tubes for bass reflex.
Last edited:
From what I’ve read the W5-2143s are great FR drivers and very versatile too. They seem to excel in open baffles and sealed enclosures – but will need help with the lower octaves. I would keep the drivers and toss the old enclosures. Since this is diy and you are at the FR section I would suggest going true FR with these drivers in a simple MLTL enclosure like the TABAQ – then you will have satisfying bass too. If you don’t want to cut your own wood and have access to CNC help, then it is just assembling a flat pack.
Examples of TABAQ builds:
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
You can get the CNC files here:
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
Greets!
Well, yes and no, it's just a quick comparison, not a 'cast in stone' differential in net volume required [Vb]; I said the W6 was in the ballpark, not optimum! The W5 is an even poorer fit acoustically as you've already confirmed.
Re PE cab alignments; pretty sure they are simple MLTLs [vented alignment with better vent damping], not a long folded line like yours that changes everything, so probably comparing apples n' oranges.
BTW still need the internal baffle length, front/rear location to get a more accurate sim, though based on what you hear, it appears to be down the middle where I simmed it.
Right, an 8 ft ceiling has a huge fundamental dip around ~565/8 = ~70.6 Hz and carpet will raise it some.
More to come as time permits.
GM
Pretty much.
Beats me; I mean with the right driver it will be a solid performer down to its ~48 Hz tuning that with a bit of stuffing will net a ~40 Hz F10 in the pictured locations, but a speaker cab only loads down around tuning, petering out at the driver's effective upper mass corner = ~2*55/0.38 = ~289 Hz or a bit lower once all additional series resistances are accounted for.
This barely gets it into the lower mids [~250-500 Hz], so tells us virtually nothing about how it sounds overall where the W5 apparently 'outshines' the W6 [not surprising since smaller = wider usable BW], so in choosing the 'right' driver to meet both these criteria requires either a lot of 'ears on' experience with a wide variety of drivers [which I don't have] and/or a lot of 'faith' in others recommendations, so I'm only good for the box design part.
Anyway, more to come as time permits.
GM
Hi Contractsman try the below thread where I tried to connect a Fostex FE206en to a Sony SSTL40 Cab.
https://www.diyauddio.com/forums/full-range/240874-pappas-tl-6.html
Resulting bass was good but expected overall result was dissapointing.
John
https://www.diyauddio.com/forums/full-range/240874-pappas-tl-6.html
Resulting bass was good but expected overall result was dissapointing.
John
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.