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Polymate3D FD61 - 3D Printed Full Range Speaker Driver- In development
Polymate3D FD61 - 3D Printed Full Range Speaker Driver- In development
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Old 30th July 2019, 04:09 PM   #21
Bare is offline Bare  Canada
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The elephant in the room question is :
Why? Even a capable printer setup that can do this credibly is erm.. Expensive and I suspect, beyond most basement fiddler's budgets.
$$$ that could otherwise allow one to purchase the Best drivers out there.
Beyond that... it seems an interesting adventure.
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Old 30th July 2019, 05:36 PM   #22
Spike415 is offline Spike415  United Kingdom
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Thank you for the kind word ghemml. I have seen your work and it is truly a work of art!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bare View Post
The elephant in the room question is :
Why? Even a capable printer setup that can do this credibly is erm.. Expensive and I suspect, beyond most basement fiddler's budgets.
$$$ that could otherwise allow one to purchase the Best drivers out there.
Beyond that... it seems an interesting adventure.
It is a very valid set of points and it certainly is not aimed at people who have experience and know what they want to do. My initial drive to do such a thing is to simply see if it's possible, but this project its more from my own personal background.

Through my time building speakers, I have freedom over the cabinet and crossover etc, but the only option to delve deeper into the understanding of how a driver works was to destroy drivers. The only way to learn what I liked was to build multiple cabinets suited to the driver of choice each time. This was both time consuming and takes up space. Each driver requiring a different baffle cut out and screw holes...

So this has been built with a kit design approach for a few reasons:

1) Couldn't locate another company doing the same. I especially couldn't find something that would also be usable in the end as well (Unlike most science project kits). I didn't want something that served the principle, but a real world case.

2) With drivers like the Alpair 7M and 7P, I have wanted there to be a platform where the material is changed and very little else. This would help me understand the differences in material choices, along with cone profiles. With the drive train being interchangeable on FD61, I can attempt many different materials and hear in person the differences.

3) If I was going to design a driver, I didn't like the idea of the magnets being glued down and then cannot be salvaged. This is a non issue with FD61 as well. They can be removed and used on the next project, or possibly added to a new stronger magnet motor, increasing the flexibility of the driver.

I therefore made the design small so that you can print cabinets if you have a printer, but also build with a relatively small amount of material.

So if you can picture a small cabinet with the option of making it a sealed, vented, passive radiator and aperiodic enclosure, and then fit it with a FD61 which you may end up having a Wood PETG, Diamond dust PLA and Carbon Fibre reinforced Polycarbonate drivetrains. You could then change out the material and the enclosure type, allowing very quick learning and adaptation.

Then exploring it further, you can have new suspension options made available with varying compliance, effectively with enough parts creating a driver you can tailor to your own taste.

It's intention is a kit for learning, and the added bonus of it's flexibility. It's not planned to be released as STL's for people to print due to the nature of each printers quality and results vary. The intention is I make all of printed components and supply the magnets etc required in a kit to make at home. My designs are printed on my own design 3D Printer which I have 2 off, and had experience with my first design and ironed out those issues. 1 of the current printers has printed over 60kg of material and only 1 single component failure.

Sorry for the long winded message, and I appreciate the questions and concerns Bare. I'm just a mad man trying to push what is possible
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Last edited by Spike415; 30th July 2019 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 30th July 2019, 06:43 PM   #23
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Polymate3D FD61 - 3D Printed Full Range Speaker Driver- In development
Paul,

Very interesting work - thanks for sharing. The idea of having a design with interchangeable parts is a good one IMHO - such a driver would be a tweaker and experimenter's dream. But having said that, it is also true that a product like that might not appeal to everybody, especially if we consider those who don't want to experiment a lot. If I am not wrong, Mark Fenlon discussed a basket with interchangeable components at one point of time, but cost, health issues, and lack of clear market demand got in the way of further exploration.

Long Term Ownership of Alpair Drivers?

Last edited by zman01; 30th July 2019 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 31st July 2019, 05:22 AM   #24
ghemml is offline ghemml  Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike415 View Post
Thank you for the kind word ghemml. I have seen your work and it is truly a work of art!



It is a very valid set of points and it certainly is not aimed at people who have experience and know what they want to do. My initial drive to do such a thing is to simply see if it's possible, but this project its more from my own personal background.

Through my time building speakers, I have freedom over the cabinet and crossover etc, but the only option to delve deeper into the understanding of how a driver works was to destroy drivers. The only way to learn what I liked was to build multiple cabinets suited to the driver of choice each time. This was both time consuming and takes up space. Each driver requiring a different baffle cut out and screw holes...

So this has been built with a kit design approach for a few reasons:

1) Couldn't locate another company doing the same. I especially couldn't find something that would also be usable in the end as well (Unlike most science project kits). I didn't want something that served the principle, but a real world case.

2) With drivers like the Alpair 7M and 7P, I have wanted there to be a platform where the material is changed and very little else. This would help me understand the differences in material choices, along with cone profiles. With the drive train being interchangeable on FD61, I can attempt many different materials and hear in person the differences.

3) If I was going to design a driver, I didn't like the idea of the magnets being glued down and then cannot be salvaged. This is a non issue with FD61 as well. They can be removed and used on the next project, or possibly added to a new stronger magnet motor, increasing the flexibility of the driver.

I therefore made the design small so that you can print cabinets if you have a printer, but also build with a relatively small amount of material.

So if you can picture a small cabinet with the option of making it a sealed, vented, passive radiator and aperiodic enclosure, and then fit it with a FD61 which you may end up having a Wood PETG, Diamond dust PLA and Carbon Fibre reinforced Polycarbonate drivetrains. You could then change out the material and the enclosure type, allowing very quick learning and adaptation.

Then exploring it further, you can have new suspension options made available with varying compliance, effectively with enough parts creating a driver you can tailor to your own taste.

It's intention is a kit for learning, and the added bonus of it's flexibility. It's not planned to be released as STL's for people to print due to the nature of each printers quality and results vary. The intention is I make all of printed components and supply the magnets etc required in a kit to make at home. My designs are printed on my own design 3D Printer which I have 2 off, and had experience with my first design and ironed out those issues. 1 of the current printers has printed over 60kg of material and only 1 single component failure.

Sorry for the long winded message, and I appreciate the questions and concerns Bare. I'm just a mad man trying to push what is possible

I get weak knees when I see slick speaker frame.

Just curious, what type magnet you planning to use?
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Old 31st July 2019, 08:29 AM   #25
Spike415 is offline Spike415  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Paul,

Very interesting work - thanks for sharing. The idea of having a design with interchangeable parts is a good one IMHO - such a driver would be a tweaker and experimenter's dream. But having said that, it is also true that a product like that might not appeal to everybody, especially if we consider those who don't want to experiment a lot. If I am not wrong, Mark Fenlon discussed a basket with interchangeable components at one point of time, but cost, health issues, and lack of clear market demand got in the way of further exploration.

Long Term Ownership of Alpair Drivers?
Thanks for your post zman01

With the intention of making the driver parts myself, I almost hope it isn't for everyone as I wouldn't be able to keep up . The companies out there like Mark Audio, Fostex, Scan Speak, etc clearly know there stuff and I wouldn't want to take someone away from these drivers if they match what they are looking for.

Thanks for the link. I believe Mark Fenlon does make some drivers which you can take apart and reassemble for military purposes. Unfortunately these are not available to us or in different materials due to it's use case.

I will most certainly will keep sharing updates as it progresses closer to a final build. I intend on making a pair of drivers again (Like I did in earlier builds) to make sure consistancy is still going as planned. Then after that it will be attempting to reduce inductance and improve high frequency response.

Paul
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Old 31st July 2019, 08:50 AM   #26
Spike415 is offline Spike415  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghemml View Post
I get weak knees when I see slick speaker frame.

Just curious, what type magnet you planning to use?
I am glad you like it ghemml. It is much better than the early builds. May still have some changes.

At the moment the magnets in use are N35 disc magnets. They then have there north poles compressed against one another to create a strong magnetic gap in the center height wise. The design is all subject to change though.

This is all contained in a tube with a screw on back cap with a indent going inside. This is so the tube of closed over during the screwing down and the compression of the magnets. Don't really fancy all the bruises of magnets coming together on my fingers!

Due to the tube design, it is possible to replace the motor out for another design and layout quite easily. The voice coil is a underhung design and current Xmax is simulated to be approximately 1.5mm, making it's real world power handling around 2.5 to 5W, which helps with temperature concerns as well with certain materials. Tesla for the current motor is approximately 0.67T.
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Old 31st July 2019, 09:29 AM   #27
ghemml is offline ghemml  Singapore
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Neo magnets are probably easiest accessible magnetic material. It be great to have close up photo of the magnet structures.


It is nice to have something out of the box like what you did.
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Old 31st July 2019, 11:33 AM   #28
Spike415 is offline Spike415  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghemml View Post
Neo magnets are probably easiest accessible magnetic material. It be great to have close up photo of the magnet structures.


It is nice to have something out of the box like what you did.
Due to the printed tube stopping you actually seeing the magnets, I can't show that at this point in time. I will attempt an 270 degree print however this weekend and see if that works as that would allow you to see them.

The design despite using some steel pieces originates from attempting to get as much power from using just magnets on there own, and maintaining a reasonable size magnetic gap to allow ease of making it at home.

On a side note, has anyone found a supplier of 1KG of less of copper clad aluminium wire?

Paul
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Old 31st July 2019, 01:16 PM   #29
ghemml is offline ghemml  Singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike415 View Post
Due to the printed tube stopping you actually seeing the magnets, I can't show that at this point in time. I will attempt an 270 degree print however this weekend and see if that works as that would allow you to see them.

The design despite using some steel pieces originates from attempting to get as much power from using just magnets on there own, and maintaining a reasonable size magnetic gap to allow ease of making it at home.

On a side note, has anyone found a supplier of 1KG of less of copper clad aluminium wire?

Paul

Awesome, do update when u done with the 270 degree print. I also keen in getting a 3D printer.


For enamel wire you can buy from them at 500g


wires.co.uk : Solderable Enamelled Copper Winding Wire
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Old 3rd August 2019, 07:38 PM   #30
Spike415 is offline Spike415  United Kingdom
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Hello everyone. Weekend is here!

This is an update in relation to the magnet motor in response to what Ghemml was looking for. Here are 2 pictures. One before assembled showing the 2 opposing neodymium magnet arrays along with some steel pieces, and the other with it assembled but showing them compressed together.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

The array shown in the picture is a bit different to the best so far, but it uses varying thicknesses of magnets to allow me to alter the design and analyse quickly. You can see on the open one that the back cap goes into the tube. This is for 2 reasons:

1) It alleviates the pressure when compressing the magnets, along with enclosing the magnets before the pressure gets too high

2) It opens up the potential to flip the cap around and extend the magnet array without having to adjust the design and print another iteration. This has the added effect of longer test times with each one of these components

Next stages are being worked on. I am altering the front of the basket slightly internally to allow longer throw without chance of contact. The suspension components have had there design changed to create a stronger bond at the tips of the rib sections. Previous suspensions had tears in them and although the current ones have gone fine, I am improving this more now.

Finally, these new suspensions will be created in a 83A shore hardness flexible material.

This is a very highly flexible filament, which in most cases would cause problems on standard extruders, requiring something like a flexion extruder to achieve the results. During the development of this driver, this was a key issue, and my own design extruder was not cutting it. This then indirectly created my new extruder design which was added to my own design printers. Hopefully we will see a higher compliance in the next model.

The final stage will be adding some ridges back into the moving mass to improve rigidity.

As always, any questions, queries or concerns are very much welcome. Will see if I get enough time in the rest of this weekend to bring all the new components together.

Paul
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