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Obtaining my White Whale (25 Driver IDS-25 Line Array Build)
Obtaining my White Whale (25 Driver IDS-25 Line Array Build)
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Old 24th April 2019, 12:44 AM   #101
Nvphotos is offline Nvphotos
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Waterfall:
Left center couch
Right center couch
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Old 24th April 2019, 01:32 AM   #102
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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Dropping pretty hard above 6kHz.
Unless that's your preferred listening FR curve.
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Old 24th April 2019, 03:43 PM   #103
Nvphotos is offline Nvphotos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by perceval View Post
Dropping pretty hard above 6kHz.
Unless that's your preferred listening FR curve.
Don't worry, I'm getting there! I made some EQ tweeks last night that sound very promising. I won't be able to get measurements though till Thursday.

I'm still trying to learn how to EQ them using peq filters. The eq adjustments I have made so far are simple parametric EQ.
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Old 24th April 2019, 08:30 PM   #104
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvphotos View Post
% Impulse:
Center of couch left
Center of couch right
All left measurements
All right measurements
I'm still reading along .

If I look at this view of the multiple impulses (in % mode), it seems they are not aligned at the "0" point. We really should fix that before making an average of those IR's.
I know you're going to make a new set of measurements, but it can't harm to practice some in the mean time.

When looking at an impulse in the "%" mode, the first biggest peak should be exactly centered at zero (0).
Go trough your measurements one by one and align them.
Usually that just means to click controls (upper right corner and push the "Estimate IR delay" button and accept what it needs to shift to put that peak at zero. However, sometimes it's hard to figure out automatically and that would mean you have to shift the peak yourself, you can try and read the graph by zooming in and see where the peak is. Next you can use the t=0 offset (ms) box to shift the peak left (positive numbers) of right (negative numbers).

After aligning all (using the first big peak in each measurement) peaks to "0", then we can create a more decent vector average.

Once we have the vector average we can try and EQ that to the desired shape. I'd first use broad strokes (meaning PEQ's with low number Q's, Low would be 3 or less. Q=0.5 for instance works on a large wide area, Q=3 is working on a relative small area. You can also use REW's automatic EQ. For that you'd need to set a target and REW will try to EQ output to that shape.
Use the filters, something like 1/12 smoothing if needed to get a clearer graph. We're not going into too much detail yet.

Hope this all makes a little sense to you, the more you work on it, the more it will fall into place.

To get an idea of a target, you could use something like this for a start:
Obtaining my White Whale (25 Driver IDS-25 Line Array Build)-target-jpg
See the blue line

The numbers on the right should give you a similar shape to start with.
The only one you should not copy is the Target level (dB). The target level should be set to be about mid way of your measured result. This will mean you cut some energy at ~200 Hz and will need boost for the low end to follow the target graph, maybe some boost on the top end as well.

The target shown here is a crude approximation of the "Trained listeners" graph from Harmon:
Obtaining my White Whale (25 Driver IDS-25 Line Array Build)-toolecurve-jpg

If you haven't got anything else to go by, this is quite a decent starting point. So the trick is to get the left average and right average to follow that blue target as best you can. The more left and right start to look similar, the better your imaging will become.
With any luck, the usage of the averaging and setting overall balance to follow that graph will get you quite a decent sound, tonally.

Later on you can deviate from it to your hearts desire, to suit your taste. We first need some kind of reference to get to.

This is turning out into one of my infamous long posts already, so I'll quit now. Just practice with your current measurements to get the hang of it.
The more you do it, the easier it will become.

Deal?

P.S. Don't go too wild with the EQ, don't try to boost any narrow dips. You can get away with quite high boost numbers with the arrays, especially when it's close to a corner, but that would need a side wall damping panel to work. As you have them further from a corner, don't try to follow the curve all the way down to 20 HZ by forcing it... Ideally we'd look at the distortion by using an EQ-ed measurement to see if we get it too far.
I use boost up to 14 dB at the low end, but fewer PEQ's placed close together add up quickly.

By placing your target midway between the high and low values you prevent needing too much boost. I cut about 10 dB of output at ~200 Hz.
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File Type: jpg toolecurve.jpg (52.5 KB, 126 views)
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Last edited by wesayso; 24th April 2019 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 25th April 2019, 06:16 AM   #105
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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wesayso, I never saw your figures for how much EQ you do on your lines. Figures in ballpark to mine.

Nvphotos - my lines sit all the way into the corners. This is work in progress....

EQ: (PEQ no, P(eq), Freq, Q, Gain)

16 P 200 0,7 -2
17 P 250 1,5 -7
18 P 1800 1,5 5
19 P 150 1,5 3
20 P 60 0,6 16
21 P 7k 0,7 6
22 P 14k 0,7 6
23 P 14k 0,7 6
24 P 7.7k 8 -5
25 P 12,4k 7 -5,5
26 P 11,6k 2 -4
27 P 777 0,1 -3
28 P 100 8 -6 (questionable)
29 P 15k 0,6 3

Result in listening prosition: (+ no eq)
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File Type: jpg 2.jpg (154.1 KB, 23 views)
File Type: png Untitled 4.png (144.9 KB, 20 views)
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Last edited by TNT; 25th April 2019 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 25th April 2019, 09:10 PM   #106
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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I blame that on the length of my thread . I think it's been discussed more than once.
@TNT, do you have plans to use a tool like DRC-FIR? While getting th frequency curves in a reasonable shape is a good first step, the fixing of the IR helps to further tame them. Prevent them to sound larger than life, something often attributed to straight arrays.
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Old 25th April 2019, 09:15 PM   #107
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Yes - there is lots more to do inc FIR for sure - and I will. But I fear that with the driver I used, it will never be really good in the top i.e. the peaks att 7,7 and 11,5. These are audible I'm afraid. And my cabinet is to small.

Still, I'm very pleased with them - but/and not finished !!

//
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Old 29th April 2019, 03:27 PM   #108
Nvphotos is offline Nvphotos
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Life has taken over lately so I've mostly just been enjoying them. They are definitely the best sounding speakers I have owned.

I've played with their positioning more but keep coming back to the same spots away from the walls. I really want to find a spot near the walls/corners but I really like what I'm hearing in their pulled out position.

Wesayso, I though I had the gain structure figured out until I started typing this just now and my music started distorting like crazy. Ironic!
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Old 29th April 2019, 03:35 PM   #109
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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With side wall damping panels I'm pretty sure you could get them to "play nice" closer to the corner and gain a lot of bottom end potential .

I've had a lot of those sudden distorted sounds in my startup period . The arrays can handle a lot. Be sure to keep an eye on the internal digital processing. If you clip there it will sound awful.
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Old 29th April 2019, 08:42 PM   #110
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I definitely have plans for side wall panels. I'm just taking my time to do it right the first time asthetically (waf).
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