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Yet another IDS-25 clone?
Yet another IDS-25 clone?
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Old 19th April 2019, 05:52 PM   #51
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Not as greatly as I once, not too long ago assumed .

OK you asked for it LoL....
Some good point sources might change your mind again
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Old 19th April 2019, 05:53 PM   #52
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
I'm quite sure I'm getting the balance I'm supposed to get... I've run literally thousands of transfer functions over the last few years, and have very accurate prosound boxes for comparative evaluations.
I'm not questioning those speakers, I'm questioning what you really get, at your ear. Even outside without a room, it should even be more clear to hear under those circumstances.
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Old 19th April 2019, 06:13 PM   #53
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I'm not questioning those speakers, I'm questioning what you really get, at your ear. Even outside without a room, it should even be more clear to hear under those circumstances.
You're right, it is much more clear outside. Almost discouragingly so....
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Old 19th April 2019, 06:19 PM   #54
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
OK you asked for it LoL....
Some good point sources might change your mind again
Why? Because you question the effectivity of line arrays based on the half tests you have run so far?
You haven't even started unlocking their potential! That part I am serious about. There is much more to have than what you've heard them do so far.
I'm not new to point sources you know... I've heard other speakers too .

This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with point sources or line arrays.

Try some ambiophonics, do it outside with your favorite point sources. Try a few different race algorithms. One of them just might show you what's there, potentially ready to be unlocked. The speakers will be placed close together for such an exercise, that alone should be a worthy first advantage.

Not that I would want to run ambiophonics, I'd hate the tought of having to sit behind each other to get to listen with the best benefits (lol). But I have played with it, extensively. (with point sources )
It did not bring me what I wanted, but one thing it did do was to show it's potential. Now I try and do the same with a Stereo setup, which means all processing needs to be adapted to that.

Whatever speaker we use, get it to behave at the listening spot as they should, and they will sound more alike than different. If that's done well, you simply forget about the speakers completely, and all that is left is music.
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Last edited by wesayso; 19th April 2019 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 19th April 2019, 06:20 PM   #55
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark100 View Post
You're right, it is much more clear outside. Almost discouragingly so....
THAT is what I'm talking about. And it need not be!
(although we could be talking way past each other, making up an entirely different meaning of what is typed here)

P.S. we should move this discussion. We are a guest on this thread. We could continue on my thread, I don't mind a little light blabber

My apologies to the OP
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Last edited by wesayso; 19th April 2019 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 19th April 2019, 06:37 PM   #56
mark100 is offline mark100  United States
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Thanks for your continued enthusiasm and comments...
I don't mean to sound unresponsive, but it's hard for me to convey how much I don't want to be confined to a listening spot, or work to make one the primary focus.
Part of the joy of outside music for me, apart from the overarching sound quality, is being able to play/party/lounge in a wide area with a bunch of friends.
Back to different objectives I guess I like hi-fi PA..

Anyway, it's probably time to move on...i feel bad so off topic from Anchorman's thread...thx again

Last edited by mark100; 19th April 2019 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 20th April 2019, 06:00 PM   #57
anchorman is offline anchorman
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My sample drivers showed up in the mail yesterday, a little sooner than I had expected! I guess I’d better get cracking at making some test boxes. I was kind of surprised just how tiny they are. I had gotten to thinking exclusively about the big sound that these will make in pairs of 25, and so seeing just a couple of them in a box was a shock.

I’ve got my eye on an oscilloscope/network analyzer/waveform generator that can hook up via USB, and will do the graphing for me, then just need to get the microphone for frequency measurements sorted out.

I made some headway regarding how I might make something more than a plain box that I can still cut the pieces on the router, while also avoiding stack type construction. Even MDF and particle board expand and contract significantly more in thickness than in width and length with basic humidity changes. It’s mostly because they are short wood fibers essentially formed into a mat, so even though across the panel the grain seems random, in thickness the grains are still relatively planar/parallel to one another. One place I read something like 5% dimensional change, which almost seems excessive until you think about the garbage wood that gets used to make them. The best figure I’ve read about for wood is 1/8” per foot, which you get with Honduran mahogany and a few others. Most oak is closer to 1/4” or foot, and most pines are worse from there. As you look at the grain from the end radiating out from the center of the tree gives a different figure than looking at how it expands across the direction of the rings. Along its length almost no change with moisture.

Once I get a little further along, i’ll Post pics of some cad renderings. The program I use is evolved from autocad’s inventor, so look for some tall speakers sitting in the same field that wesayso used for his renderings
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Old 20th April 2019, 07:42 PM   #58
ted4412wilt is offline ted4412wilt  United States
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Get the Peerless TC9FD18-08 and not the Dayton PC83-8. I bought 10 of the Dayton PC83-8 full range drivers when they were first introduced because they had a larger magnet. The frequency response shown seemed ideal but none of the 10 were even close to that. There is extreme breakup in the top octave on some and big dip on others. I have a test setup on a very large baffle using a pair of the PC83-8 and another pair of the TC9FD18-08 wired in series parallel to give an 8 ohm mono load. I chose the best ones of each driver to blend together. The result is smooth powerful sound you would not believe. If you sit close to an array you will hear the comb filtering that does not sound very good; however, if you bounce that sound off an angled wall and listen many feet away the sound is fantastic. Like the organ is in your room. The combined power rating is 120 watts. Efficiency is high.
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Old 20th April 2019, 08:03 PM   #59
anchorman is offline anchorman
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That’s the thing, isn’t it? I hadn’t considered consistency of product yet. I was more looking at the specs they publish... I’ll hopefully have a way to make some decent measurements soon enough, along with using the measuring devices mounted on either side of my head.
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Old 20th April 2019, 09:18 PM   #60
ted4412wilt is offline ted4412wilt  United States
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Here is a great comparison of full rangers Timothy Feleppa's Pages: Speaker Measurements - Midrange/Fullrange Speakers 4" and smaller
The Peerless Vifa TC7FD00-04 is the smoothest driver I have. It would be great in an array covering 250 hz up and then get some big bass speakers to handle the low frequencies.
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