ok, finally I'm at 95% done my pair of PAL12 subs. Should have plenty of <100hz to satisfy...
Now back to 2144 designs!
Looking closer at the two designs you made GM; I do like the idea of 31hz F3, and also a 5db bump, though I always confuse 2PI vs 4pi etc... 2pi is on a floor, but away from walls?
The main diff I notice is your big bassy box has S=600 and a bunch of "40"s, and the smaller flat box is S=400 and a bunch of 20s !?
I'd like to try a "S=500 and 30s" box... but I don't even understand all the numbers yet.
Can I just change numbers? ...Ok I did that, made the 600s 500s, and the 40s 20s, and turned 40.54 into 20.27.
NOW - I get barely a rise (may as well stick with the orig 400 flat extension box).
Any suggestions for a box resulting in a sound SMACK in the middle of your two boxes, GM?
Thanks!
Now back to 2144 designs!
Looking closer at the two designs you made GM; I do like the idea of 31hz F3, and also a 5db bump, though I always confuse 2PI vs 4pi etc... 2pi is on a floor, but away from walls?
The main diff I notice is your big bassy box has S=600 and a bunch of "40"s, and the smaller flat box is S=400 and a bunch of 20s !?
I'd like to try a "S=500 and 30s" box... but I don't even understand all the numbers yet.
Can I just change numbers? ...Ok I did that, made the 600s 500s, and the 40s 20s, and turned 40.54 into 20.27.
NOW - I get barely a rise (may as well stick with the orig 400 flat extension box).
Any suggestions for a box resulting in a sound SMACK in the middle of your two boxes, GM?
Thanks!
Since you already have a pair of subs doing the low end, no need to strain the 2144 all the way down to 30Hz.
Seal the box at about 17 litres, that will give you F3 of 78Hz, let your subs take care of anything lower than that, and it will free the 2144 a bit to clean up the frequencies higher up.
You'll have smaller enclosures that will be easier to place in your living room.
Seal the box at about 17 litres, that will give you F3 of 78Hz, let your subs take care of anything lower than that, and it will free the 2144 a bit to clean up the frequencies higher up.
You'll have smaller enclosures that will be easier to place in your living room.
Right, 2pi is half space, like if the speaker was buried flush with the ground plane in an acoustically large, flat space, so in room we make do with it setting on the floor well away from any walls and especially, corners.
the 600s, 40s, etc., are cm^2, i.e. WxD [i.d.] for the cab/vent and have identical tuning [Fb], so for 500 cm^2 the vent would be [40.54*20.27]^0.5 = 28.67 cm^2 [i.d.].
If you look at the stuffing sims in the LW you'll see that the '500', '600' alignments are 'to the ear', near enough acoustically identical and why I did the '400' for if close to a wall and if hard/flush in the corner could probably get by with a '200' alignment.
As for 'SMACK in the middle' that would be a [400*600]^0.5 = ~'489.9' alignment, which is close enough to '500' that it only means a little smaller box, so in the 'scheme of things', the difference in the '489.9' Vs '600' is a bit more damping and/or lower tuning flexibility for the '600' and IME can have a bit more 'open'/'relaxed' presentation that some of us prefer.
GM
the 600s, 40s, etc., are cm^2, i.e. WxD [i.d.] for the cab/vent and have identical tuning [Fb], so for 500 cm^2 the vent would be [40.54*20.27]^0.5 = 28.67 cm^2 [i.d.].
If you look at the stuffing sims in the LW you'll see that the '500', '600' alignments are 'to the ear', near enough acoustically identical and why I did the '400' for if close to a wall and if hard/flush in the corner could probably get by with a '200' alignment.
As for 'SMACK in the middle' that would be a [400*600]^0.5 = ~'489.9' alignment, which is close enough to '500' that it only means a little smaller box, so in the 'scheme of things', the difference in the '489.9' Vs '600' is a bit more damping and/or lower tuning flexibility for the '600' and IME can have a bit more 'open'/'relaxed' presentation that some of us prefer.
GM
ok!
I started with the 400 box, and changed the 400s to 500. A little dip, teeny bump, and similar F3.
THEN I changed the bottom "Con" from 3.6 to 1.8.
now I get a nice 2db bump ...
Changed Con to 1.5 - now it hits 92 at 40. beautiful.
S4 and S5 are still 20.27.
How does that sound / look to you GM? I'll see if I can attach the export.
...
Ok I can't export ?? HR shows me the file I exported, but it's not in any folder! There's no export folder so I created one, and re-started HR and it STILL doesn't save the file in the export folder!
I started with the 400 box, and changed the 400s to 500. A little dip, teeny bump, and similar F3.
THEN I changed the bottom "Con" from 3.6 to 1.8.
now I get a nice 2db bump ...
Changed Con to 1.5 - now it hits 92 at 40. beautiful.
S4 and S5 are still 20.27.
How does that sound / look to you GM? I'll see if I can attach the export.
...
Ok I can't export ?? HR shows me the file I exported, but it's not in any folder! There's no export folder so I created one, and re-started HR and it STILL doesn't save the file in the export folder!
HR auto creates an IMPORT, EXPORT folder in the created HR folder, so IIRC, if you don't specify a particular folder to install it like I did, then it auto creates it on 'C' drive and if you exported it and got no error message, it should show up in the 'hornresp/EXPORT' folder when you search for it to DL to DIYaudio/wherever. FWIW, I've always located HR and similar programs in the DOWNLOAD folder.
edit: Actually, the folder location is displayed when the File/EXPORT/HR Record.. window is open, so scroll down to see if it's there.
GM
edit: Actually, the folder location is displayed when the File/EXPORT/HR Record.. window is open, so scroll down to see if it's there.
GM
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yeah, when I export it tells me it's putting them in:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Hornresp\Export - yet the folder didn't exist!
Hornresp still shows me the file I exported.
Ok I copied & edited in notepad, and put in the import folder to check. I do like this sizing... a little more natural & extended, but still a gentle bass boost.
TXT attached!
C:\Program Files (x86)\Hornresp\Export - yet the folder didn't exist!
Hornresp still shows me the file I exported.
Ok I copied & edited in notepad, and put in the import folder to check. I do like this sizing... a little more natural & extended, but still a gentle bass boost.
TXT attached!
The narrower the baffle, the higher in frequency the baffle transitions from 2pi [half] to 4pi [full] space, so depending on the room's acoustics and speaker location you may need some baffle step compensation [BSC] to tonally balance [shelve] the response over a wide BW otherwise 'bump' or no, [mid] bass response could be up to -6 dB at tuning, i.e. be a very 'bright' sounding system: General Speaker Related Articles
Note too that you lowered tuning below Fs even more than I did, so power handling will be reduced even more.
In the LW [wizard], stuffing quantity and location is listed on the schematic when the 'filling' option is chosen. The sliders on the right show actual dimensions.
Again though, this is just a suggestion based on polyfil as more often than not, folks wind up removing some when tuning by ear, especially if using more dense materials such as the popular shredded jeans, lamb's wool or my preference, O-C 703 acoustic fiberglass insulation.
GM
I lowered Fs even more? didn't mean to do that 
Ok it sounds like I'm best following your design. I don't have the patience to fully learn & tweak HR right now.
I did find some lamb's wool in the shed... still have to figure out how to access stuffing in HR as the menu didn't seem the same for me. I'll try again.
Ok it sounds like I'm best following your design. I don't have the patience to fully learn & tweak HR right now.
I did find some lamb's wool in the shed... still have to figure out how to access stuffing in HR as the menu didn't seem the same for me. I'll try again.
OK, this is a lot denser than the polyfil used in HR sims, so you'll probably only need a wad of it distributed in the driver area, though the way to tell how much is required is to listen to it empty, then at least initially only add enough to get rid of its 'hollowness' as anymore starts reducing its acoustic efficiency. Of course if it still sounds 'boomy' in room, then either move it further from a room boundary or add more stuffing along the pipe starting at the top.
As for HR, this is done in the Tools/Wizard, which should open a new window showing the schematic, which in turn shows the stuffing location shaded in around the driver. Clicking on the [R.H. options] window open up it menu where 'Filling' is, which shows in percentages exactly where it's located in the pipe if you want to be precise about it, with the segments being S1, etc., used on the 'Input Parameters' [main] screen.
GM
Ok, I'll likely just stick to Polyfil then:
Poly-Fil PF-32 Premium Fiber Fill 32 Ounce Bag,: Amazon.ca: Home & Kitchen
easier to work with too. Any idea how much? They sell it by the ounce / lb, so hopefully 32oz is plenty for both cabinets.
The speakers will be placed quiet close (if not against) the wall behind them. Until we move houses, they won't likely leave the spot.
Poly-Fil PF-32 Premium Fiber Fill 32 Ounce Bag,: Amazon.ca: Home & Kitchen
easier to work with too. Any idea how much? They sell it by the ounce / lb, so hopefully 32oz is plenty for both cabinets.
The speakers will be placed quiet close (if not against) the wall behind them. Until we move houses, they won't likely leave the spot.