Hi everyone!? I am a hobby speaker designer looking to design my own version of a FAST speaker. I've chosen a woofer, but am seeking suggestions for a mid/tweeter.
H1602-04/06 L12RE/XFC
So far this is on the top of the list. I, and others, seem to think the frequency resonse on this one isn't exactly choice but maybe doable...the power specs look right for my project. Hoping to find something with similar power/spl/size but a flatter frequency response.
Thanks for the help
Camplo
H1602-04/06 L12RE/XFC
So far this is on the top of the list. I, and others, seem to think the frequency resonse on this one isn't exactly choice but maybe doable...the power specs look right for my project. Hoping to find something with similar power/spl/size but a flatter frequency response.
Thanks for the help
Camplo
At this point, An Ultimax 15" -> Dayton Audio UM15-22 15" Ultimax DVC Subwoofer 2 ohms Per Coil
Bi amping, tri amping, whatever the finished designs calls for really. I was looking to crossover at 200hz....I think that sub would do fine there, don't you?
I checked out the suggestion, and noticed it was a full range single driver, not a coaxial.
What I am unsure of is, can a full-ranger, handle being a mid range and tweeter, at high volumes without distorting, in particular if crossed over at 200hz. I'd like a minimum max spl of 110db or better.
I checked out the suggestion, and noticed it was a full range single driver, not a coaxial.
What I am unsure of is, can a full-ranger, handle being a mid range and tweeter, at high volumes without distorting, in particular if crossed over at 200hz. I'd like a minimum max spl of 110db or better.
Indeed, most full range drivers in the 3 to 4" category will star having noticeable distortions at about 300. So, no go there.
110dBs is not really casual listening, but more like pub style. Have you looked at pro drivers? Their response are usually more ragged, but if it's power you're looking for, they might fit the bill.
Also, the Seas you linked. If you check the graph, the woofer part has trouble going above 80dB, so not a good match for your 15" sub.
This will be two 15" sub, right? Stereo pair? Otherwise, crossing at 200Hz, a single sub would be easy to locate and have imbalance in the sub region.
And if you still want to stay out of pro audio drivers, the TB W6-2313 would be a much better match in terms of sensitivity. And it sounds quite nice as well.
W6-2313 - 6.5” Paper Coaxial Full Range - TB SPEAKER CO., LTD.
But.... I must agree with Dave that a higher crossover point would be desirable. At least 300Hz. So, you would still be looking at a woofer, instead of a subwoofer.
Having a real woofer with the W6-2313 (or in this case, a full range driver) would allow you to cross to a single sub in the 50Hz region, and that would be best.
110dBs is not really casual listening, but more like pub style. Have you looked at pro drivers? Their response are usually more ragged, but if it's power you're looking for, they might fit the bill.
Also, the Seas you linked. If you check the graph, the woofer part has trouble going above 80dB, so not a good match for your 15" sub.
This will be two 15" sub, right? Stereo pair? Otherwise, crossing at 200Hz, a single sub would be easy to locate and have imbalance in the sub region.
And if you still want to stay out of pro audio drivers, the TB W6-2313 would be a much better match in terms of sensitivity. And it sounds quite nice as well.
W6-2313 - 6.5” Paper Coaxial Full Range - TB SPEAKER CO., LTD.
But.... I must agree with Dave that a higher crossover point would be desirable. At least 300Hz. So, you would still be looking at a woofer, instead of a subwoofer.
Having a real woofer with the W6-2313 (or in this case, a full range driver) would allow you to cross to a single sub in the 50Hz region, and that would be best.
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You are correct in thinking that its a pair of subs. 3 way in function but woofer in separate box....200hz isn't set in stone, I just liked the wide passband from woofer xover to the tweeter xover and Im using a number close to that now with my current system. I've never seen that tang band before! My only concern is sticking with 4-5" drivers which seem to have the best midrange. That tang band confuses me, there must be a built on crossover? I have 12" subs currently crossed over at ~150 to 4" mids. Its perfect, just above the frequencies that would start to cause the 4" to actually use noticeable excursion, I can play it full volume no distortion. This is a 3 way design though. FAST = Full range and SUBwoofer technology. Thank you for the suggestions, I'm investigating all of them =)
I would hesitate using such a large driver that high. And with the huge advatages of push-push loading this low, i’d choose 2 12s (i’d actually use 4x10”) push-push to achieve the kind of bass i’d like. The smaller drivers (i have particular 10s & 12s in mind) would easily reach 200 Hz XO.
dave
Planet I'd like to learn about push pull configuration, not to be confused with isobaric configuration. Can you provide maybe a link or two with some good study material? I also am not keen to the term WAW, could you enlighten me?
That new tang band is probably the best coaxial on the market.
That new tang band is probably the best coaxial on the market.
The W6-2313 needs a crossover between the woofer and the tweeter. Nothing too fancy. I have 2nd order on them right now and they sound fine.
It's mid-range is very good. Full and detailed.
Some info here:
TB new line of Coax FR drivers
I would not hesitate to use a 15” woofer to even 400hz in a FAST design. One only needs to look at polar response to see the advantages. Most pro audio 15” mid woofers are super smooth at 400-800hz. Go for it. The advantage on orchestral music and jazz with acoustic bass will easily be revealed.
Yes, Pro audio woofers would be fine, as you would be able to cross much higher than the regular home sub that usually start to drop after 100Hz.
But, Pro Audio woofers usually have a highish Fs, between 40 to 60Hz... and I suspect the OP would like to go lower, seeing his choice of sub on page 1.
But, Pro Audio woofers usually have a highish Fs, between 40 to 60Hz... and I suspect the OP would like to go lower, seeing his choice of sub on page 1.
That would depend on the drivers chosen and the implementation.
I have in-room response to 13hz before it rolls off, using very cheap pro drivers. Have not yet built up the courage to test the limits of my system, definitely a new experience for me.
Pro drivers are built for abuse, and if used in home applications, I do not see any problem shifting the abuse towards lowering system tuning frequency, instead of max spl to 45hz before immediate drop.
The will have an easier life than if they where to be used as PA units anyway, it's like a life in vacation paradise.
Edit:
Lots of good 15", 18" and 21" with FS between 30-40, no problem pushing system FS lower.
I have in-room response to 13hz before it rolls off, using very cheap pro drivers. Have not yet built up the courage to test the limits of my system, definitely a new experience for me.
Pro drivers are built for abuse, and if used in home applications, I do not see any problem shifting the abuse towards lowering system tuning frequency, instead of max spl to 45hz before immediate drop.
The will have an easier life than if they where to be used as PA units anyway, it's like a life in vacation paradise.
Edit:
Lots of good 15", 18" and 21" with FS between 30-40, no problem pushing system FS lower.
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I think for deep bass at loud volumes, you have to have xmax. Pro audio drivers with high xmax can be found but if the the speaker+box config rolls off at 45hz then you are going need a lot more xmax to drive the response back up to linear, with eq correction. Probably like 30+xmax actually. To bring the system f3 down ~10 more hertz, you are talking about dble the power (which we can do) and no less than 18 or so xmax, in a sealed box. I haven't seen pro drivers with that type of xmax. With ported you might get a deeper f3 off the bat with a pro driver but now the box is likely gigantic but more importantly if you play below the port tuning xmax requirements go through the roof. If you are getting at system+room f3, of 18hz.. I bet its at like 60db.
I have a thread started on subwoofers for this project if you want to discuss this there. Cerwin vega has some really good subs at a really good price. Slightly better than the Daytons and 60 bucks or so cheaper.
As for the fast design, I read percevals post and measurements and came to the conclusion that this is not for. My KRKv4s4 that I turned into mids and tweets, perform very well, the frequency response is super smooth. From what I can see here, any DIY coaxial design I've come across has the same/better/worse lobing as a two way. I do all my critical listening for mix/mastering in the sweet spot, plus use room correction, the overall sound quality wouldn't improve, by using any of the coaxials available on the market for DIY.
This comment here confirmed my thoughts, and I have a 4" for a mid, currently
"No driver over about 4" is capable of upper midrange frequencies without cone breakup. (Breakup means that different parts of the cone are vibrating differently instead of moving as a rigid piston). Cone breakup is not a complete disaster, but tends to produce irregular frequency response, often compensated (sort of) by components in the crossover network."
source - Differences between small vs. large mid driver | Audiogon Discussion Forum
I have a thread started on subwoofers for this project if you want to discuss this there. Cerwin vega has some really good subs at a really good price. Slightly better than the Daytons and 60 bucks or so cheaper.
As for the fast design, I read percevals post and measurements and came to the conclusion that this is not for. My KRKv4s4 that I turned into mids and tweets, perform very well, the frequency response is super smooth. From what I can see here, any DIY coaxial design I've come across has the same/better/worse lobing as a two way. I do all my critical listening for mix/mastering in the sweet spot, plus use room correction, the overall sound quality wouldn't improve, by using any of the coaxials available on the market for DIY.
This comment here confirmed my thoughts, and I have a 4" for a mid, currently
"No driver over about 4" is capable of upper midrange frequencies without cone breakup. (Breakup means that different parts of the cone are vibrating differently instead of moving as a rigid piston). Cone breakup is not a complete disaster, but tends to produce irregular frequency response, often compensated (sort of) by components in the crossover network."
source - Differences between small vs. large mid driver | Audiogon Discussion Forum
I'm working on another design right now that might be of interest. If having a good FR not just in the sweet spot, but walking around as well, I have really good result with the WMW version I made with SBA drivers, two 5x8 to minimize c-to-c distance with the mid tweet, which is the excellent SB65.
They would be easy to cross to your big sub.
Here:
WFW FAST with SBA racetrack woofers and SB65
They would be easy to cross to your big sub.
Here:
WFW FAST with SBA racetrack woofers and SB65
True reference coax suitable for mating to a sub-woofer: http://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/604_8H_III.pdf
GM
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