Reference full range or coaxial driver suggestions

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Thats a awesome speaker, on axis. Why they crossed a 15" over at 1500khz is beyond me. Its easily know that a 15" driver is going to beam above 900hz...defeats the whole purpose of being a coaxial on certain levels, the whole great off axis thing, you know? This whole project has proved to me that coaxial drivers are like an elitist product...its pass the point of diminishing returns in comparison to any high performing 2way or 3way etc etc
A mid/tweeter should be a thing.....why isn't that a thing? A 4" coaxial, is all, but a flat one.
 
With ported you might get a deeper f3 off the bat with a pro driver but now the box is likely gigantic but more importantly if you play below the port tuning xmax requirements go through the roof. If you are getting at system+room f3, of 18hz.. I bet its at like 60db.

Here's the measurements of left/right channels compared.
It was not that I could not play louder, plenty of headroom, well within xmax (which is a paltry 5mm!) and such, but louder with test tones is really uncomfortable, even when using ear protection.
Lucky strike I guess.

701993d1536300169-budget-40-10k-hz-100db-planning-fc152-15-400_no_xo-just_eq-jpg
 
Wow? What subwoofer is this? Ported Sealed? Box size? With only 5mm? come on, that can't be clean bass! With what, a 32 inch speaker lol! Wait, I know, must be crazy room gain....or photoshop! lol Kidding, I need more details though. Teach me your ways lol!
 
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Distortion at 13hz is around 1.6%, do not think that's too much.
Dual 15" per channel. Each 15" in a 128 liter br or tl, pending on where you decide the blurry lines are.

2 x 15" is about the equivalent of a single 21", if I count the tops as well, and add up the membrane area of all the drivers, it's more or less equal to 3 x 21" total.
6 x 15" in the flesh.

I wanted to try slot ports, they offer a bit more air flow resistance. I did expect output lower because of this, but not down to 13hz. Everything under 20-22hz or so, I consider an unexpected bonus.
There may be some room gain, but I did not count on it during the planning stuff phase.

Edit:
I've tried 16hz sine a bit to soften up the drivers, loud enough to actually hear it.
 
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Distortion at 13hz is around 1.6%, do not think that's too much.
Dual 15" per channel. Each 15" in a 128 liter br or tl, pending on where you decide the blurry lines are.

2 x 15" is about the equivalent of a single 21", if I count the tops as well, and add up the membrane area of all the drivers, it's more or less equal to 3 x 21" total.
6 x 15" in the flesh.

I wanted to try slot ports, they offer a bit more air flow resistance. I did expect output lower because of this, but not down to 13hz. Everything under 20-22hz or so, I consider an unexpected bonus.
There may be some room gain, but I did not count on it during the planning stuff phase.

Edit:
I've tried 16hz sine a bit to soften up the drivers, loud enough to actually hear it.

Who are you? :bigeyes: I don't know if I could build a transmission line and I don't know what a br is?
 
br is another way of saying a vented enclosure.

Have a br speaker with some distance between the driver and the port, and it starts to become a transmission line. Over-simplified explanation, as there's a lot more math included there.

TLs can be easily sim'd with a software like HornResp (free, in case you're wondering).

I'm sure KaffiMann's setup using dual 15' for low end duties, and the Fane 15" full range for everything else must carry some punch! :D
 
Yes indeed, very happy with the Fane 15" FR units. Not perfect, but I like them for what they are.
Also have setups with Seas FU10RB and MA 10.2
Have had a pair of SB SB65WBAC25-4 on the shelf for a long while, but not heard them yet, too much stuff happening.

I think it's nice to have a little bit of diversity.
Spend most of my listening time with the Fane setup though, dynamics are fun!
 
I'm having a hard time accepting that hes getting flat to 20hz with a woofer that has 5mm xmax. I'd like to know the details to see if I can pull it off. If hes running 4 - 15's and I add up the xmax, then it makes more sense, and then the combined surface area, it makes even more sense.
I think what would really put this in perspective is if the driver being used was made to be known.
Maybe its just me, and a lack of experience. Hes right though, pa speakers are built to be beat. I recall my first 3 way I made 20 years ago with a pair of Eminence 12's
Also, my room eats lower bass, speaker +box f3 is like 27-29 with my current subs but the room brings that system f3 down to like 50hz at my listening position.
Still I am impressed and inspired by what hes doing....If I knew what drivers he was using I could weigh in the investment. I also ways favored pro drivers for their great sensitivity. htere is theory that high sensitivity drivers are a characteristic of greater sound quality, as well.
 
As mentioned, having multiples will share the load between drivers helps with keeping travel and distortion down.

On the extreme, you could use bass arrays, nine 8" drivers per side would beat your single 15" Ultimax. Add in a little EQ and you'll be reaching 20Hz easily, and quite loud.

GRS at Parts Express has a cheap line of woofer's that would be perfect for just that.
 
The thread is over in the Multiway section. Have a look at the last page.
Budget 40-10k+hz 100db/w planning

Nothing magical or special about it, the ultimate goal was, as you can see, to go from 40hz to 10khz in around 300 liters per channel +/- some %, as cheaply as possible.
Part reason was because after a lot of trial and error, I became a fan of no-boost eq when eq was required. It is much easier and cheaper to cut the tops than fill the valleys, and it sounds better too. So to get proper 95dbw I had to set the goal of 100dbw, but eventually had to concede and change it to 100db/2,83v.

After a lot of pondering and checking out various drivers, suddenly Fane decided the world was ready for FC152!
I did not want to hope too much, but it was cheap, so I took a chance. Now this driver is called 15-300TC. I eventually settled on the Fane 15-400 for bass, they are discontinued now. If there's any interest at all in my box design, the Fane 15-600 Pro (do not use the LF version!) is a better driver in most aspects except price. Many other drivers can be used, it is a reasonably flexible design.
I do not recommend OSB as cabinet material, it is sturdy enough, and cheap, but it can be very hard to make a pretty end result, takes a lot of work.

Edit:
I think it might be one of the biggest membrane area FAST/WAW setups here?
Anyway, considering it's only a two way, I think the frequency extension is not too bad.

Edit:
The Fane 15-300TC has a thread here in the Fullrange forum:
New 15" full range- FANE
 
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Thats a awesome speaker, on axis. Why they crossed a 15" over at 1500khz is beyond me. Its easily know that a 15" driver is going to beam above 900hz...defeats the whole purpose of being a coaxial on certain levels, the whole great off axis thing, you know? This whole project has proved to me that coaxial drivers are like an elitist product...its pass the point of diminishing returns in comparison to any high performing 2way or 3way etc etc
A mid/tweeter should be a thing.....why isn't that a thing? A 4" coaxial, is all, but a flat one.

To meet the needs of the studio, broadcasting, etc., apps it was designed for, though it's nominally a 1.5 kHz XO ;).

~900 Hz is a rule-of-thumb, not a given as it depends on cone profile, surrounding baffle.

When it was designed, high speech intelligibility at high efficiency was the primary goals, so rising on axis was desirable plus it has the added benefit of working well in its intended apps without super fancy/expensive rooms to control reflections.

Well, one can argue that given enough digital correction a cone/dome speaker can theoretically rival some well done traditional style coax or triax, but the reality; not to mine and to some others ears, especially if compared to Danley Sound Lab's versions that are currently in a league of their own and the only ones I'm aware of that meets your 'flat' power response over presumably a wide arc spec.

No 4" coax I'm aware of is going to rival the best available over a 2-300 Hz-up BW at low distortion at high SPL in a large space without a very large WG, not at 110 dB even if just transient peaks.

At minimum and assuming the mids cone can do [5] octaves, then at least a ~3.82" effective piston diameter is required. For a 4" frame, a > 500 Hz XO is viable assuming it has enough Xmax/power handing to get the desired peak SPL.

GM
 
Have you heard this one GM?

I wish! It had actually been available for years before I learned of it here when someone posted their MLTL build, which IIRC he finally sold them [or just drivers?] as apparently the excessive horn shrouding compromised performance too much.

Unfortunately, Bill has apparently been stuck with keeping both duplex's horns slightly inset for flush grill mounting, which really sucked for his 604 upgrade since us Altec centric folks want[ed] a return to the original's large horn/WG, optimum nominally 1 kHz XO.

GM
 
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Hmmmm hmmm and hmmm. You guys see this one?

JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor - Buy At Westlake Pro

Is that a compression driver up top?


I am still researching electrostatic speakers, they don't seem to be that to me.

The most interesting thing to me is that some people actually want directivity. Apparently it has usefulness. I don't know who convinced me that was the devil...maybe its not always warranted for nearfield monitoring or maybe I'm getting desired characterics of home audiophiles mixed up with that of the studio....I could care less if no one out side of the sweet spot can hear the how good the audio is. I do remember having the thought that sound or air rather, having the some of the same dynamics of a liquid, and that a speaker of high directivity is going to not only focus the sound at me, depress reflections, and thats outside of the fact that they create less reflective material, at least from the ceiling and floor. Maybe its the idea that in near field its a little too easy to be off axis that a wider sweet spot is desired.

Also KaffiMann....I'm a fan of your work. My problem is there is no way that I know of model what you did with your 15s. The best I could do is model 4 15's in the same box, and still the 15"s I used in the model made it seem like you'd have to chose the right woofer to get away with a 5mm xmax. You definitely opened my eyes to some interesting possibilities though.


Faitalpro has some high performing full range drivers that last I checked were pretty cheap.
 
Camplo, thank you, but I am merely fumbling about. Many people here are much more skilled than I will ever be.

Looking into hornresp is sort of a fast track to the beginning of the long road of enlightenment.
So anyway, what do you want? Is there any particular price range, size restrictions, or other parameters you are looking for?
 
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