Hi,
I own the Faitalpro 3fe22, however I am curious to try the scanspeak 8424. I know one is called a 3" and the other is 4" but actually they have the similar cone area (30 vs 36 cm^2).
I am looking for someone who has actually own or heard both 'Live' and could comment on the difference in subjective sound quality.
I know there is a thread on comparison of 2-4" drivers but I would take it with a pinch of salt since the listeners heard it through their own earphones.
Thanking all in advance.
Oon
I own the Faitalpro 3fe22, however I am curious to try the scanspeak 8424. I know one is called a 3" and the other is 4" but actually they have the similar cone area (30 vs 36 cm^2).
I am looking for someone who has actually own or heard both 'Live' and could comment on the difference in subjective sound quality.
I know there is a thread on comparison of 2-4" drivers but I would take it with a pinch of salt since the listeners heard it through their own earphones.
Thanking all in advance.
Oon
3FE22 is more sensitive and very nice sounding. Both are great drivers and personally it comes down to sound between paper vs fiberglass and Italian vs Danish sound. I could live with either but the 10F/8424 has a bit lower distortion when pressed hard. It also sounds smoother - glassy smooth whereas 3FE22 has a bit more bite. I prefer 10F/8424 but if I had only the 3FE22, I would not be unhappy at all.
Dear XRK,
Thank you for your comment. It is very valuable. I know you have both but I haven't come across a direct comment on their differences. Noted on the differences.
Could you comment on what you meant by the italian versus the Danish sound? and what do you mean when you say the 3Fe22 has more bite? It could mean differently subject to interpretation. So I wanted some clarity in those statements.
Thanks again.
Oon
Thank you for your comment. It is very valuable. I know you have both but I haven't come across a direct comment on their differences. Noted on the differences.
Could you comment on what you meant by the italian versus the Danish sound? and what do you mean when you say the 3Fe22 has more bite? It could mean differently subject to interpretation. So I wanted some clarity in those statements.
Thanks again.
Oon
I can't compare as I have no Scanspeak. I will say that, after having great experiences with some FaitalPRO PA drivers, I was very disappointed with the 3FE25 and even worse, 4FE35. I would categorize both as shrill or piercing, not terribly different from piezo tweeters to my ears. I think it may be an artifact from the raising response and loss of control of the cone at high frequencies. Not unexpected in the 4" with a fiberglass cone maybe, but didn't see it coming in the 3" paper cone.
Also, the shape of the basket is annoying and makes mounting difficult, particularly with the magnet that is almost as big as the flange. May be best rear mounted, which I don't like for other reasons. This problem goes away for the neodynum magnet version though.
As always, YMMV.
Edit: almost forgot, I think the published SPL is inflated. They are loud for their size, but its by no means a flat response. I have limited measurement equipment, but even from their own published spec seems to be true. I measured T/S parameters with the Dayton DATS and again, for a FaitalPRO the published specs were way off what I measured. Previous PA drivers I have used were spot on.
Also, the shape of the basket is annoying and makes mounting difficult, particularly with the magnet that is almost as big as the flange. May be best rear mounted, which I don't like for other reasons. This problem goes away for the neodynum magnet version though.
As always, YMMV.
Edit: almost forgot, I think the published SPL is inflated. They are loud for their size, but its by no means a flat response. I have limited measurement equipment, but even from their own published spec seems to be true. I measured T/S parameters with the Dayton DATS and again, for a FaitalPRO the published specs were way off what I measured. Previous PA drivers I have used were spot on.
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Hi,
I find the faitalpro can be a bit shrill sometimes on solid state amps. Much better with tubes. Having said that, I always use mine with equalization and filter, it won't sound good if used the right filters. The first thing to note is that in most crossover design, baffle step filter is already built in. But for full range, that is quite often a neglected part. So adding a baffle step filter in a simple filter circuit will reduce the response by about 6db on the treble and provide a flatter response. You would also need to cut off everything below 100 Hz or so, as the vibration from the frequency there will result in over excursion.
I find the faitalpro can be a bit shrill sometimes on solid state amps. Much better with tubes. Having said that, I always use mine with equalization and filter, it won't sound good if used the right filters. The first thing to note is that in most crossover design, baffle step filter is already built in. But for full range, that is quite often a neglected part. So adding a baffle step filter in a simple filter circuit will reduce the response by about 6db on the treble and provide a flatter response. You would also need to cut off everything below 100 Hz or so, as the vibration from the frequency there will result in over excursion.
Interesting comparison. What with the 8424 bring 5 times the cost. At least here in the UK.
I have the 3fe22. Always wondered how much better the Scanspeak can be. I guess the scale of diminishing returns kicks in fairly hard.
Xrk has probably compared these more than anyone and so I find his thoughts valid. Albeit all of this is subjective to our own ears and tastes.
I love my 3fe22. In all of 4 litres ported. Powered by tpa3255 . They are definitely too bright fed straight. I have bsc/filter.
I have the 3fe22. Always wondered how much better the Scanspeak can be. I guess the scale of diminishing returns kicks in fairly hard.
Xrk has probably compared these more than anyone and so I find his thoughts valid. Albeit all of this is subjective to our own ears and tastes.
I love my 3fe22. In all of 4 litres ported. Powered by tpa3255 . They are definitely too bright fed straight. I have bsc/filter.
Hi celef,
3fe22 has a slightly rising response. Based on you description, I suspect you didn't include baffle step compensation. In other words, the response measured by companies is what happens if you mounted on the wall, if you mounted on a box you need to adjust a bit to compensate for that. Since 3fe22 already has a rising response. Not including it will make it very exaggerated.
Baffle step calculator – with circuit examples – Audio Judgement
I believe it will sound much better after you added in this. Which will typically reduce response by about 6db in the high frequencies.
I'd hazard a guess somewhere between 500-1000 Hz for a narrow enclosure.
Oon
3fe22 has a slightly rising response. Based on you description, I suspect you didn't include baffle step compensation. In other words, the response measured by companies is what happens if you mounted on the wall, if you mounted on a box you need to adjust a bit to compensate for that. Since 3fe22 already has a rising response. Not including it will make it very exaggerated.
Baffle step calculator – with circuit examples – Audio Judgement
I believe it will sound much better after you added in this. Which will typically reduce response by about 6db in the high frequencies.
I'd hazard a guess somewhere between 500-1000 Hz for a narrow enclosure.
Oon
For the record, I tried to tame the 3FE25 using BSC and still couldn't get the shrillness to go away - finally gave up. Coincidentally, just today I broke out a GRS 4FR-8 with very low expectations. This driver blew me away considering its low cost ($6.56 on sale right now at P-E). Looks very promising for compact single driver MLTL duty.
I really like the 3FE25 in a Karlsonator. Beautiful sounding with great too end and body. What kind of speaker are you using? The problem with most boxes is that they have a -5dB baffle step falloff. This makes the highs sound shrill. The Karlsonator provides a lot of bass gain like a BLH. So no BSC needed. A BSC would cut overall sensitivity down to 86dB.
Hi Guys,
How do you guys tame the shout/peak of the 3fe22. Just got mine & have been listening to it in free air no baffle & crossing at 1.2k hz. Not using it to go lower as looking into buidling a 2 way. Will test it out on a 12 inch round waveguide when I receive it.
I like the sound as it's extremely dynamic, transparent. There's this shout/peak that I hear on certain music though, think it's somewhere between 2.5 to 4k hz.
Thks
How do you guys tame the shout/peak of the 3fe22. Just got mine & have been listening to it in free air no baffle & crossing at 1.2k hz. Not using it to go lower as looking into buidling a 2 way. Will test it out on a 12 inch round waveguide when I receive it.
I like the sound as it's extremely dynamic, transparent. There's this shout/peak that I hear on certain music though, think it's somewhere between 2.5 to 4k hz.
Thks
Hi,
To be frank, I would push it down to 500Hz or lower, the one advantage that people like full range as opposed to tweeters is because you don't want to cross it between 500Hz to 5kHz. That is the most sensitive part of our hearing and acrossover compromises on the coherence of the speaker. For me that shows up as the sound loses its naturalness and the imaging becomes flat instead of 3D.
As for the peak, maybe it shows up because you are crossing next to it? At 1.2kHz it will be 3db down and exaggerate the peak,so crossing lower might help. I find painting the cone but not dust cap a single coat of Visaton LTS 50 helps bring the sound slightly darker, but my measurements don't show any particular change in the frequency band.
Oon
To be frank, I would push it down to 500Hz or lower, the one advantage that people like full range as opposed to tweeters is because you don't want to cross it between 500Hz to 5kHz. That is the most sensitive part of our hearing and acrossover compromises on the coherence of the speaker. For me that shows up as the sound loses its naturalness and the imaging becomes flat instead of 3D.
As for the peak, maybe it shows up because you are crossing next to it? At 1.2kHz it will be 3db down and exaggerate the peak,so crossing lower might help. I find painting the cone but not dust cap a single coat of Visaton LTS 50 helps bring the sound slightly darker, but my measurements don't show any particular change in the frequency band.
Oon
Hi Ooon
Many thank for the advice. Ultimately it will be cross at 500hz when I've the time to build the Edgar mid horns & yes 500-4k hz is what I'll be aiming for & if beaming can be controlled then I'll let the faital free to go all the way up. Using 1.2k hz now is just to get the hang of how it sounds like & simply becoz the XO was build to test other drivers. Lol
Re the peak that I hear, my take is it will sound nastier or
perhaps louder once I load it in the horn. Will try with passive solution to see if I can tame it.
placing a notch filter might take away the goodness that I like now. Btw it really humbles me what this little driver can do, performs better then my ML Odyssey in terms of transparency & dynamics not to mention a wider sweet spot.
Many thanks again
Many thank for the advice. Ultimately it will be cross at 500hz when I've the time to build the Edgar mid horns & yes 500-4k hz is what I'll be aiming for & if beaming can be controlled then I'll let the faital free to go all the way up. Using 1.2k hz now is just to get the hang of how it sounds like & simply becoz the XO was build to test other drivers. Lol
Re the peak that I hear, my take is it will sound nastier or
perhaps louder once I load it in the horn. Will try with passive solution to see if I can tame it.
placing a notch filter might take away the goodness that I like now. Btw it really humbles me what this little driver can do, performs better then my ML Odyssey in terms of transparency & dynamics not to mention a wider sweet spot.
Many thanks again
with a proper horn there will be gain on the low end, an excursion reduction in that area compared to a direct radiator for a given SPL.
A narrow peak might appear dead on axis (?) - anyhow, the crossover would take care of that stuff.
Here's a 3FE22 variant sold at Ebay - I don't know if its a custom job or not but the relatively large dustcap makes it unsuitable for fullrange direct radiator use.
IIRC it was tested on a small cardboard baffle for those traces
Below those pictures is the same driver on a 250Hz Edgarhorn tractrix horn w, ~9"x18" mouth and 2.5" x 2.5" throat. A 2" x 2" throat would be a better fit.
Direct Radiator
Horn - since the throat was larger than the speaker, two traces are shown. One with the small gaps between the frame and the throat. The other with packing tape halfass sealing those gaps. With a 2x2 inch throat, Dr. Edgar's trick of using Scotch Brite strips to make a leaky gasket could be tried.
I don't know if my comment about it not being loud enough for a full horn system is true ??
A narrow peak might appear dead on axis (?) - anyhow, the crossover would take care of that stuff.
Here's a 3FE22 variant sold at Ebay - I don't know if its a custom job or not but the relatively large dustcap makes it unsuitable for fullrange direct radiator use.
IIRC it was tested on a small cardboard baffle for those traces
Below those pictures is the same driver on a 250Hz Edgarhorn tractrix horn w, ~9"x18" mouth and 2.5" x 2.5" throat. A 2" x 2" throat would be a better fit.
Direct Radiator
Horn - since the throat was larger than the speaker, two traces are shown. One with the small gaps between the frame and the throat. The other with packing tape halfass sealing those gaps. With a 2x2 inch throat, Dr. Edgar's trick of using Scotch Brite strips to make a leaky gasket could be tried.
I don't know if my comment about it not being loud enough for a full horn system is true ??
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Hi Freddi
How are you & as always thank you for your your advice. Yes your 3FE22 does look strange with that enormous dust cap. Anyway I've resolved the peak/shout issue with applying damping compound to the surround. Really surprise that it worked so well. Will experiment with some damping on the cone next.
Cheers
How are you & as always thank you for your your advice. Yes your 3FE22 does look strange with that enormous dust cap. Anyway I've resolved the peak/shout issue with applying damping compound to the surround. Really surprise that it worked so well. Will experiment with some damping on the cone next.
Cheers
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