Hello everybody,
I am about to build a pair of speakers for a 300B amp. I already have Markaudio 10p (in frugalhorn) and 12p(in superpensil) pairs working with 6S4S and PP tube amps respectively and I am totally happy with them. But I want to try, say, SEAS FA22RCZ or maybe something else interesting you can recommend that I haven't hear of. Thanks in advance.
P.S. the room is 12 square meters, distance from a listener to each driver - around 1.5 meters
I am about to build a pair of speakers for a 300B amp. I already have Markaudio 10p (in frugalhorn) and 12p(in superpensil) pairs working with 6S4S and PP tube amps respectively and I am totally happy with them. But I want to try, say, SEAS FA22RCZ or maybe something else interesting you can recommend that I haven't hear of. Thanks in advance.
P.S. the room is 12 square meters, distance from a listener to each driver - around 1.5 meters
One possibility I could suggest is also have a look at the 8" Visaton fullrange unit B200. It possibly looses a couple of dBs but can be used in a slightly smaller cabinet. I can be bought cheaply depending on sales etc.
It may not be better driver than the Seas, and I haven't heard it in a closed cabinet of 30 Litres, but I have heard it in some rear loaded horns meant for a lowther where it was substituted in place of the lowther and it worked well, but the horns would be bigger to build they also gain some more sensitivity, if that is important.
At the Seas website they have a good application note describing differing options plus suggestions for baffle step diffraction loss, so it should be relatively risk free to get something sensible up and running. Have you tried a search for it to see if others have used it and posted their thought, maybe even a YouTube video of a build.
You are in a smallish space, so I am making an assumption open baffles would not work. In my experience with 8 watts or so of class A, even 86dB sensitivity speakers can be listened to for all day long radio etc, but, if you want a recording of a local band or orchestra, explosions or suchlike at full realistic levels you may have to look at the esoteric drivers like Voxativ or Lowthers mounted in horn based cabinets.
There are lots of other possible drivers that could be used eg a coaxial 10CX650 from 18 sound in 30 Litres reflex apparently. I haven't heard them, so I cannot comment, but maybe others will.
Don't you have some local old boys who could recommend some 60's designed speakers using alnico magnets to pick up on the Vintage aspects.
Have fun.
It may not be better driver than the Seas, and I haven't heard it in a closed cabinet of 30 Litres, but I have heard it in some rear loaded horns meant for a lowther where it was substituted in place of the lowther and it worked well, but the horns would be bigger to build they also gain some more sensitivity, if that is important.
At the Seas website they have a good application note describing differing options plus suggestions for baffle step diffraction loss, so it should be relatively risk free to get something sensible up and running. Have you tried a search for it to see if others have used it and posted their thought, maybe even a YouTube video of a build.
You are in a smallish space, so I am making an assumption open baffles would not work. In my experience with 8 watts or so of class A, even 86dB sensitivity speakers can be listened to for all day long radio etc, but, if you want a recording of a local band or orchestra, explosions or suchlike at full realistic levels you may have to look at the esoteric drivers like Voxativ or Lowthers mounted in horn based cabinets.
There are lots of other possible drivers that could be used eg a coaxial 10CX650 from 18 sound in 30 Litres reflex apparently. I haven't heard them, so I cannot comment, but maybe others will.
Don't you have some local old boys who could recommend some 60's designed speakers using alnico magnets to pick up on the Vintage aspects.
Have fun.
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The FA22 is a good driver. So is the B200 (althou it needs phase plugs or a filter to tame the top end). The B200 is not nearly as efficient as specified (about the same as the A10p/12p).
FA22 works well in a sealed box, B200 is more challenging, it is one of the few FRs that can be in an OB and get bass.
In such a small room with essentially near field listening a smaller driver might be more appropriate.
The typical 300B is in an SE amp with highish output impedance. So a speaker that is happy with that is likely the best pick. ie FExx6 series.
But you already have 2 of the best FRs around… most everything else will be different.
dave
FA22 works well in a sealed box, B200 is more challenging, it is one of the few FRs that can be in an OB and get bass.
In such a small room with essentially near field listening a smaller driver might be more appropriate.
The typical 300B is in an SE amp with highish output impedance. So a speaker that is happy with that is likely the best pick. ie FExx6 series.
But you already have 2 of the best FRs around… most everything else will be different.
dave
Dave, Esteban, thanks. One thing that puzzles me is the price range for the drivers, mentioned in this thread. It is between 100 (Fostex) and 5000 $(Voxative). I understand that price\quality dependency is not linear, but, anyway... To what extend should I take the price into consideration, I am a bit confused
Pricing can be a big can-of-worms. It is typically an exponential curve, as performance goes up, prices go ballistic. I live in what could probably be the sweet spot… i am alway slooking for driver sthat give tremendous performance for not a whole lot of money. Most of the Alpairs fit into this class, and then i modify them for even better performance.
As much as i’d like to play with Voxativ (or AER/Lowther…) they are too pricey for me and each probably comes with its own set of issues. Things like Sonido and Cube (at least before they started getting distributers) represent drivers between the swet spot and th price no object drivers.
One of my set sof A10PeN speakers:
dave
As much as i’d like to play with Voxativ (or AER/Lowther…) they are too pricey for me and each probably comes with its own set of issues. Things like Sonido and Cube (at least before they started getting distributers) represent drivers between the swet spot and th price no object drivers.
One of my set sof A10PeN speakers:
dave
Dave, thank you, great advice. By the way, as for A10PeN, how are they comparing to 10p Frugals? Bassy enough for classic rock? You are right, for near field listening.
Pricing can be a big can-of-worms. It is typically an exponential curve, as performance goes up, prices go ballistic. I live in what could probably be the sweet spot… i am alway slooking for driver sthat give tremendous performance for not a whole lot of money. Most of the Alpairs fit into this class, and then i modify them for even better performance.
As much as i’d like to play with Voxativ (or AER/Lowther…) they are too pricey for me and each probably comes with its own set of issues. Things like Sonido and Cube (at least before they started getting distributers) represent drivers between the swet spot and th price no object drivers.
One of my set sof A10PeN speakers:
dave
Thank you, Dave. One more inquiry. I haven't ever experimented with sealed box yet. Seas driver is recommended by the manuf-er to use in a SB. What about Markaudio drivers, are they good in SB, a 10p, for example? While building multiple speakers for home theater, I had an opportunity to test both SuperPensils 12p and Pluvia 7 Pensils with the 300B SE, as well as FHXL in different positions. When speakers are in the corners, tuning the bass response turns out to be the hardest part. I just can't put enough damping to get rid of that exaggerated uh-uh somewhere around 60-90 hertz. When the speakers are not in the corners they do much better. The best result I get from SuperPensils, which are damped both inside and outside - the bass is powerful yet gentle, it just hangs in the air. That said, my assumption is that a SB should work great, being placed in the corners of the room, which will naturally contribute to the bass part. Am I right or not?
Unless uses as a satelitte or midTweeter the MA drivers really need a box with a hole in it to go low. A10p in a sealed box asks for woofers to come in no lower than 90 Hz.
When speakers ar ein the corner they are exciting the room modes by a maimum amount.
It is more complex than that. Today typically few drivers are designed for sealed box, so a sealed box will not go as low. A sealed box also rolls of 2nd order — the gentiler roll-off typically works better with room gain.
dave
At 12 sq meters / 1.5m listening distance you’re dealing with a pretty small room (~130 sq ft) and 5 ft listening. I’d suggest that since you’ve already found sufficient floorspace to shoehorn a pair of FHXLs, that a Pensil - or even one of numerous stand-mounters - might worth considering for the Alpairs, and that the power delievered by the 300B would suffice.
edit: if you’re planning on keeping the FHXLs intact snd contemplating a new build, you might want to look at the new A7 or 11MS. I have a pair of the latter in floorstander MLTL and they’re pretty nice, but both are metals lack the “classic” ( read somewhat softer) top end of the A10Ps. My hearing is such that I need as much help in the octave and half above probably 8KHz as I can get. My primary listening to these drivers is in 7.1 surround system - fixed position of approx 3 meters, with L & R about 15dg off axis, and A10.3 about 5dg off vertical with sloped front baffle on center channel enclosure.
edit: if you’re planning on keeping the FHXLs intact snd contemplating a new build, you might want to look at the new A7 or 11MS. I have a pair of the latter in floorstander MLTL and they’re pretty nice, but both are metals lack the “classic” ( read somewhat softer) top end of the A10Ps. My hearing is such that I need as much help in the octave and half above probably 8KHz as I can get. My primary listening to these drivers is in 7.1 surround system - fixed position of approx 3 meters, with L & R about 15dg off axis, and A10.3 about 5dg off vertical with sloped front baffle on center channel enclosure.
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