Guys, i've been reading around and looking to make some form of maze for the internals and want to recycle the speakers from a logitech Z-2300 setup. All the information i could find is that they are
2.5" polished aluminum phase plug drivers, 40w RMS @ 8 ohms at 1khz at 10% THD.
I would like to do something like this (or similar) where i get to use a template and router. Budget is really free as i have scrap pine sheets, these speakers already and plenty of wire/paint/glue etc. (to be honest more interested in the woodworking component). But would like to hear from the masses if somebody has designed and built one with a similar sized driver.
I have already built a 3.5" t line for a set of PC speakers where the folds were minimal and based on somebody elses design, this one would be trying to make the best sound out of a tiny driver with no real financial impacts (may buy a resistor/inductor if it makes a significant impact for a BSC).
oh and i will be looking to power with no more that a 5-15w per channel amp board.
any help (or designs) would be greatly appreciated as i dont really understand the back end of speaker design, just want to get a length, volume and go nuts.
2.5" polished aluminum phase plug drivers, 40w RMS @ 8 ohms at 1khz at 10% THD.
I would like to do something like this (or similar) where i get to use a template and router. Budget is really free as i have scrap pine sheets, these speakers already and plenty of wire/paint/glue etc. (to be honest more interested in the woodworking component). But would like to hear from the masses if somebody has designed and built one with a similar sized driver.
I have already built a 3.5" t line for a set of PC speakers where the folds were minimal and based on somebody elses design, this one would be trying to make the best sound out of a tiny driver with no real financial impacts (may buy a resistor/inductor if it makes a significant impact for a BSC).
oh and i will be looking to power with no more that a 5-15w per channel amp board.
any help (or designs) would be greatly appreciated as i dont really understand the back end of speaker design, just want to get a length, volume and go nuts.
If these are the Z-2300, then from here: Logitech Z-2300 : The Last of the Titans - Performance - Audio
Fs = 42.95 Hz
Re = 7.80 ohms [dc]
Le = 7328.42 uH
L2 = 3120.63 uH
R2 = 52.25 ohms
Qt = 0.52
Qes = 0.57
Qms = 6.49
Mms = 50.81 grams
Rms = 2.112233 kg / s
Cms = 0.000270 m / N
Vas = 10.35 liters
Sd = 165.13 cm ^ 2
Bl = 13.755757 Tm
ETA = 0.14%
Lp (2.83V/1m) = 83.66 dB
GM
Fs = 42.95 Hz
Re = 7.80 ohms [dc]
Le = 7328.42 uH
L2 = 3120.63 uH
R2 = 52.25 ohms
Qt = 0.52
Qes = 0.57
Qms = 6.49
Mms = 50.81 grams
Rms = 2.112233 kg / s
Cms = 0.000270 m / N
Vas = 10.35 liters
Sd = 165.13 cm ^ 2
Bl = 13.755757 Tm
ETA = 0.14%
Lp (2.83V/1m) = 83.66 dB
GM
wow, better than i thought....they did sound pretty damn good when cranked up. Always thought the sub was carrying the team on that one. I did buy them around the mid 2000's
43Hz sounds pretty low for something of that size. Albeit it referencing the satellite, this does look like it is more the sub as the enclosure size is massive as well as the surface area. being 2.5" i would have thought it was more 32cm2.
Cheers for this, definitely food for thought.
43Hz sounds pretty low for something of that size. Albeit it referencing the satellite, this does look like it is more the sub as the enclosure size is massive as well as the surface area. being 2.5" i would have thought it was more 32cm2.
Cheers for this, definitely food for thought.
Hi there - Tang Band W2-803SM, fullrange box suggestions? - a 2 inch unit in a TABAQ style enclosure, and video - YouTube
But the drivers you have there are made on a budget by the manufacturer and may not be nor hi fi nor suited for low frequencies (under 150 hz)... depends on the suspension, some satellite speakers do not have excursion and have a very high Fs - they just cant reproduce low notes, better test them in a simple enclosure (cardboard) with a vent to see if there is anything low coming from the vent. If they don't do excursion you are probably going to have a fancy enclosure for an impotent loudspeaker... overall a bad/modest sounding speaker = total lack of satisfaction; but do keep the enclosure, other drivers may do them justice.
But the drivers you have there are made on a budget by the manufacturer and may not be nor hi fi nor suited for low frequencies (under 150 hz)... depends on the suspension, some satellite speakers do not have excursion and have a very high Fs - they just cant reproduce low notes, better test them in a simple enclosure (cardboard) with a vent to see if there is anything low coming from the vent. If they don't do excursion you are probably going to have a fancy enclosure for an impotent loudspeaker... overall a bad/modest sounding speaker = total lack of satisfaction; but do keep the enclosure, other drivers may do them justice.
I have thought this could be a pointless exercise and as this is more one is up cycling items around the house and wood working techniques, maybe I should pick a 2.5" driver online and base the design on them, so if it is a throw away exercise I can just buy them and substitute. Who knows to be honest, it feels like it would be 100% trial and error with no one sure where it will fall
You can check whether the suspension is soft or not (you want soft for bass output) by pressing on it, it it moves easily you have a driver capable of reproducing some low frequencies; if it's stiff then you have a "tweeter". You can always design your enclosures around an existing driver with known parameters and built them - if the current free of charge pair doesn't work, no problem you just have to buy the ones you made the enclosures for.
YouTube - that suspension looks build for large excursion so looks good from what you can see from such vague sources of information... you would need some parameters to do the job properly.
By the way nothing is pointless as long as you do something new - because there is something to learn in something you never done before.
YouTube - that suspension looks build for large excursion so looks good from what you can see from such vague sources of information... you would need some parameters to do the job properly.
By the way nothing is pointless as long as you do something new - because there is something to learn in something you never done before.
Yeah, I wondered the same, but was too tired from another sleepless night to do any research beyond posting this link I have, but you're right, the 'dead giveaway' I missed is the 165.13 cm^2 Sd = 14.5 cm/5.71" eff. dia. = ~16.5 cm/6.5" or very large surround ~20.3 cm/8" driver size mentioned for the 'sub' woofer.
Anyway, you're '2 for 2' as these 'tiny' woofers are quite wide range, some with 5+ kHz usable BW and when one factors in that a driver is 'setting on the baffle' where it's beginning to beam at ~1 WL of its area = ~13560"_sec/[2.5"+ [2.5/2*0.613] = ~4152 Hz, it needs it to have an adequate XO overlapping BW; so odds are these will have a very high Fs [> ~125 Hz], which means not even any mid-bass output of use without EQ, i.e. optimized for vocals/speech-up BW, but pull the drivers and at least find its 'close enough' Fs to know for sure.
GM
wow, thanks for the video link, never thought i would see somebody willingly pull one apart
Think i should test the sub as well, that thing is chunky and i may be able to repurpose it with a decent amp board or something.There is a YouTube video of the excursion in action...
YouTube
Anyone come across the T/S specs on these? I read through a few pages, posts etc and got a lot of dead ends. It would appear that some thought they were rebadged Tang bangs, which were disproved from the manufacturer. There were even a few diyaudio posts from 2010/2011 but more around repurposing the sub and substituting the speakers for others
YouTube
Anyone come across the T/S specs on these? I read through a few pages, posts etc and got a lot of dead ends. It would appear that some thought they were rebadged Tang bangs, which were disproved from the manufacturer. There were even a few diyaudio posts from 2010/2011 but more around repurposing the sub and substituting the speakers for others
Excursion looks good, as far as TS parameters is concern... you are asking for incredible luck that someone pull them out, measured them and posted the data on the internet. Usually the cheaper drivers have higher Qts (cheap = smaller magnet = higher Qts) so look for a driver with known parameters with the same Sd (+-10%) that has a larger Qts then most drivers (search at least 4-5 of them to have an idea), probably higher than 0.6 and design the enclosure for those numbers; if it's a TL it will be fine... of course ideally you make your own measurements.
Your Sd will be the surface of cone + half surround minus phase plug surface.
Your Sd will be the surface of cone + half surround minus phase plug surface.
My method of estimating the most likely scenario is based on general knowledge - DIY audio related - I have pulled fullrange speakers from here and there and I know that manufacturers usually make two awfull mistakes with these units: they make them as cheap as possible (and that means the basket is not rigid enough and the magnet will be smaller) , and they never do something about the main breakup mode of the cone, so you get at least one nasty peak in the frequency response (most of the time anyway).
Judging on the way these speakers look of course they area a cheap version, so I guessed that they will have a smaller magnet (note: under the metallic cover you will have a second magnet to act as a shield for the magnetic field of the main speaker magnet) and therefor have a higher Qts (>0.6). These are not proper ways to design an enclosure but they are ways to get things close to what the "by the book" method would yield; in the world of transmission lines there is forgiveness for enclosure volume (10-15% I think it was) so you will be fine with an enclosure designed for a driver that you presume has similar parameters.
By the way, measuring Fs is very easy, but Fs is not that important, Qts is much more relevant.
By the way you did not specify what you are looking for - some fancy audio sculpture on the desk? If a subwoofer will take care of the low end that kind of means you don't need to put too much effort in designing the enclosure, anything that doesn't have stupid loud resonance will be fine, and the best is the one that mimics open baffle sound.
Judging on the way these speakers look of course they area a cheap version, so I guessed that they will have a smaller magnet (note: under the metallic cover you will have a second magnet to act as a shield for the magnetic field of the main speaker magnet) and therefor have a higher Qts (>0.6). These are not proper ways to design an enclosure but they are ways to get things close to what the "by the book" method would yield; in the world of transmission lines there is forgiveness for enclosure volume (10-15% I think it was) so you will be fine with an enclosure designed for a driver that you presume has similar parameters.
By the way, measuring Fs is very easy, but Fs is not that important, Qts is much more relevant.
By the way you did not specify what you are looking for - some fancy audio sculpture on the desk? If a subwoofer will take care of the low end that kind of means you don't need to put too much effort in designing the enclosure, anything that doesn't have stupid loud resonance will be fine, and the best is the one that mimics open baffle sound.
Please measure those drivers you have I'm not sure they are 2.5 inch... most likely 3 inch (because of the phaseplug); if they are 3"... well the TABAQ enclosure is about 10 liters in volume so prepare for a large enclosure. And you might locate much easier an existing design for the more popular 3 inch sized drivers.
Hey mate, I was just looking to make something different to my others and maybe Chuck them on a shelf in the house. I wanted to use a router to do the insides and maybe leave the sides perspex...havent really locked in a design yet. I'll use the sub in something I finished yesterday.
Attachments
Ok, the subs will take care of heavy things, then the best choice is to make it a B&W Nautilus style enclosure (feel free to let the terminus open not closed, lots of stuffing) - a transmission line designed to get rid of the "evil twin" that comes from the back of the cone.
Another thing that comes to mind for the sides of the enclosure - YouTube
And last but not least - the name for the type of enclosure you want is "maze speaker"... or at least it works with google search.
Another thing that comes to mind for the sides of the enclosure - YouTube
And last but not least - the name for the type of enclosure you want is "maze speaker"... or at least it works with google search.
There is no difference between a horn and a TL at the end of the day, a TL is a particular case of horn, both are modeled with the same horn theory; the MJ King documents on TL talk of a TL from a contracting geometry (10 times the original section of the tube) to an expanding geometry - same factor, 10x - that's a horn basically. Waveguide enclosure is the general less precise label.
All maze (looking) type of enclosures can be simulated in Hornresp (free, simple, oldschool) or LeonardAudio (free, simple, newer school) - both software specialize in TL (horn) enclosures. I didn't mention this before but when you get your driver parameters of choice/measurements you need to put them in one of these software. The maze type of enclosures are a complicated but pleasant looking way of doing something that can be done by more simple woodworking ways with little to no advantages.
All maze (looking) type of enclosures can be simulated in Hornresp (free, simple, oldschool) or LeonardAudio (free, simple, newer school) - both software specialize in TL (horn) enclosures. I didn't mention this before but when you get your driver parameters of choice/measurements you need to put them in one of these software. The maze type of enclosures are a complicated but pleasant looking way of doing something that can be done by more simple woodworking ways with little to no advantages.
Answered - how do you design something you cannot find specs for? You don't......if no one has done it, there is a good reason more than likely.
If you have a set of these satelites floating around, don't repurpose them as they are quite average on their lonesome. I did the maze configuration and they are just as gutless as not being in a box. Oh well learning experience
If you have a set of these satelites floating around, don't repurpose them as they are quite average on their lonesome. I did the maze configuration and they are just as gutless as not being in a box. Oh well learning experience
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.