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Using 2 different drivers in same cab
Using 2 different drivers in same cab
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Old 8th December 2018, 02:09 PM   #1
Grymer is offline Grymer
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Default Using 2 different drivers in same cab

Hi.

Plan

I have a Beta 12CX along with an ASD1001 horn. I'm planning on building a 2x12" cab, where the top one will be the 12CX along with the horn driver.

The second driver will be in the same vented room as the Beta-12cx. I am thinking about using the Beta-12a2, or perhaps the kappa-12.

Question

Do you reckon I can use the Beta 12a or the Kappa 12 in the same vented cab, or should it have it's own chamber?

The Beta-12cx and extra 12" will be playing about the same frequencies. The Beta-12cx and the ASD1001 will be crossed around 2,5khz using a passive crossover and the extra 12" will be cross digitally and will have it's own amp channel.

I plan on building two. They have to be portable and will be build using either 12 or 15mm birch plywood and one man alone should be able to transport them up and down staircases. Also one of the speakers will have the amp and battery for both speakers. So it will be additional 3-4kg

Also. What size chamber do you reckon I should go for if it's for indoor parties - w/o subs.

Thanks!
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Last edited by Grymer; 8th December 2018 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 10th December 2018, 08:29 AM   #2
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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For indoor parties without subs, I'd aim for something that's solid to 60Hz as a minimum. Even then, I'd still be looking at subwoofers in the long term. Modern music (particularly anything that'll be played at parties) benefits from 40Hz extension as a minimum. 30Hz would have benefits.

Why not use the 12" coaxials on their own on stands, and then add some 15 or 18" subs?
Getting a 2x12" box up high is non-trivial.

Chris
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Old 10th December 2018, 11:19 AM   #3
Grymer is offline Grymer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
For indoor parties without subs, I'd aim for something that's solid to 60Hz as a minimum. Even then, I'd still be looking at subwoofers in the long term. Modern music (particularly anything that'll be played at parties) benefits from 40Hz extension as a minimum. 30Hz would have benefits.

Why not use the 12" coaxials on their own on stands, and then add some 15 or 18" subs?
Getting a 2x12" box up high is non-trivial.

Chris
Hi Chris. Thank you very much for cracking this thread open haha. Was afraid it would just disappear like saw-dust.

I am moving to an appartment and I need some speakers that I can always crank up. These speakers will be used in rooms up to the size of BIG living rooms. Perhaps a smaller conference room, but nothing bigger than this.

Another thing is that it is running of batteries. So essentially the end-product will take 2 seconds to setup and take down (Because amp and battery is built into one of the speakers):

I just finished a project where the coaxial speakers are in very small closed cabs (They sound phenomenal) along with a Tham12 as sub, but the Tham12 does not go very low, and really doesn't use the room for extra bass, because it only really gets to 60hz. So I decided to scrap that. It has a Faital Pro 12FH500 4 ohm (Also fantastic driver)

videos in action:
When stacked
When playing

The new setup will look like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

I can bring along the "mother-speaker" or both, depending how I get to the place and how much I actually need haha
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Old 10th December 2018, 12:33 PM   #4
Grymer is offline Grymer
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Right now I am actually thinking about making a temporary sub, that I can use with my current 12CX tops. This way I can test out before commiting to building two cabs.

I'd get 2x SOVEREIGN 12-500LF and put them in a 128 liter-cab - if I like the bass-output. I'll try crossing them around 2300hz with the tops and if I like the output. I'll install the ASD1001 in a hornflare in the middle of the cab, so in the end it'll look like this:

Click the image to open in full size.

I'll build it using 15mm very light populus plywood. About 30% lighter than Birch.

Amplifier wise. I have a 2x500w amp. 500w at 4 ohm. Along with a ADAU1701 DSP.

Another thing to have in mind, is that I will ALWAYS place them to get loudest bass-response (Without messing up the rest of the response too much).
Here are the two main ways they're gonna be placed. I've done (2) a lot with an eV ELX115p, and it works very nicely! Because it's so loud.

Click the image to open in full size.

HornResp cab calculations (2x SOVEREIGN 12-500LF, 1w into 4 ohm)

Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Mixing on the wrong channel. Still hear the difference. Good I have placebo.

Last edited by Grymer; 10th December 2018 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 11th December 2018, 07:31 PM   #5
Grymer is offline Grymer
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I got another idea. Perhaps I'll use the 12FH500 4 ohm driver in the cab above. The driver I have left from last build (Plus an additional one I'll get). It's light and with the light Populus wood, then this thing won't be so heavy after all.

How well do you reckon this driver will do mids?
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Mixing on the wrong channel. Still hear the difference. Good I have placebo.

Last edited by Grymer; 11th December 2018 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 12th December 2018, 05:20 AM   #6
GM is offline GM  United States
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Looks great out to 2 kHz, though for a good power response crossing to a typical 90 deg horn is in the 1.35-1.5 kHz range.

GM
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Old 12th December 2018, 05:32 AM   #7
zahra09 is offline zahra09
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thats amazing views thanks
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Old 12th December 2018, 08:50 AM   #8
Grymer is offline Grymer
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Sketchup-design

I've build the box in Sketchup. Total volume of about 140L. 128L for speaker-volume and the 12L for drivers, battery, amps and reflex-ports.

This is designed to always be put on its side. Much like a center-speaker :P
There will be added bracing, handles and place for amp and battery added later in the designproces.

Click the image to open in full size.


Response
128L
Faital Pro 12FH500
2x 100mm ports (114mm depth)

Click the image to open in full size.




Transportation

I Calculated weight and it'll be around 30 kgs (Which is fine).

I'll add wheels in one end and you'll be able to drag the speaker along with you. I'll also add handles in top/buttom and on the sides.

Click the image to open in full size.


Horndriver

So now I'm just in need of a horndriver.

I'll get an additional amp that can provide 100w 8ohm. I'll cross the horndriver digitally so that should be easy to setup.

Now what horndriver?

I'd like to have it crossed quite low. 1,2kHz maybe 1,5kHz. These are what I've been thinking about:

Beyma CD-1014Nd (Lighter but found somebody who seemed not too happy about them)
Eminence PSD2002 (A bit heavy, but seems to fit my needs)

I've had a PSD2002 horn before and it's quite alright!

What do you think about the horn driver.

In terms of horn-flare. I'm looking for 90 degrees x 50-60 degrees
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Mixing on the wrong channel. Still hear the difference. Good I have placebo.

Last edited by Grymer; 12th December 2018 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 12th December 2018, 09:14 AM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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A few popular ones in prosound:

Faital Pro STH100 - Faital Pro STH100 1" short elliptical tractrix horn. Faital Pro STH100 elliptical tractrix horns available here at US Speaker.

Horns - Eminence Horns - Eminence H290 1" 90 x 40 bolt on horn.

Eminence Horns - Eminence SST1 constant directivity horn - 1" constant directivity horn bolt-on type


GM
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Old 13th December 2018, 06:37 PM   #10
Grymer is offline Grymer
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Just completed the order.

I'll order some aluminium cover and I'll put foam on it.

Click the image to open in full size.

I went with another driver. It was the most popular on Bluearan.co.uk and almost 1 kg lighter than the PSD:2002.

I still have a couple of weeks to regret this as they're waiting for the 12FH500 4 ohm from the supplier.

Do you reckon I should get a more expensive driver, or do you think I'll get a fine result from the Beyma CD10FE crossed 12db/octave (maybe 18db) at 1,5kHz?

If you have a 1" driver that isn't too expensive, light and will outplay the Beyma by miles, then please send them to me! Thanks!

Looking forward to this project
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