Best full-range drivers for sealed enclosure (Voxativ, AER, Lowther, Feastrex, etc)

[griffon]

Which Full-range driver is the best in a high-end sealed enclosure 2-way design (subjective I know but most linear frequency response or least coloured by whizzer, etc.)?

I am making a pair of speakers using full-range drivers for all the frequencies above bass. It will use a stereo pair of matching woofers crossed over at 150Hz - 250Hz approx, although I won't bother discussing the subwoofer in this thread.

The driver manufacturers that I am interested in are Voxativ, AER, Feastrex, Supravox, and Lowther.

I get the impression that a Lowther won't have a linear frequency response in a sealed enclosure unfortunately. Opinions?

Feastrex seem like incredibly good drivers but without any thiele small parameters or frequency response graphs I can't accurately compare with the other competitors or work out a F3 or Fb. Would anyone have access to this information?

Supravox seem ok but I am not sure if they compare to AER or Voxativ in terms of quality and linear frequency response across the whole working range (100Hz - >20KHz). Opinions?

So AER and Voxativ seem to be the best choices at this point. I have modelled a driver in comparable price brackets from each manufacturer in sealed enclosures with a Qtc of 0.707 as a base point to compare although chances are I could be using a lower Qtc in the end design.

Voxativ
AC-X3 100 dB / 1W / 1 m 50 W / 100 W 16.0 Ohm
Vas = 76 lts
fs = 40 Hz
Qts = 0.36
Qtc = 0.707
Vb = 0.94 ft3 = 26.6 lts
f3 = 78.57 Hz
fb = 78.56 Hz

AER
BD 3 106 dB / 1 W / 1 m 100 W / 300 W 16.0 Ohm
Vas = 80.4198 lts
fs = 38.1 Hz
Qts = 0.257
Qtc = 0.707
Vb = 0.43 ft3 = 12.24 lts
f3 = 104.83 Hz
fb = 104.81 Hz

So on paper I can get the AER driver into a smaller speaker enclosure and will have greater power handling and sensitivity but with an earlier fall-off in base response of just 26 Hz. Also the AER retails for €3900 while the Voxativ sells for €5900. The AER has an incredibly flat frequency response on their website datasheets while the Voxativ doesn't seem quite as good.

So has anyone got an opinion on these drivers?

Any ideas for better options for those prices?

Dan

 

[midrange]

Consideration of F3 and Qts seem a bit superfluous when you are intending to cross over in the region of 200Hz, (depending to some extent on the order of crossover.) I can confirm the unsuitability of the Lowthers for this project.

 

[hm]

Dan, it is a joke flat response, did you read the measurements of AER :
Integrierte Messung 0° ± 30°, what does that mean and how you will compair it, listen and self measurements are sometimes strange but real and no marketing instrument.

 

[griffon]

Hmm, The frequency responses for companies are so frequently jokes. I suppose that they will often use whichever method gives the flattest results.

The AER graph is a little unusual but i guess it means they have taken measurements from 0 degrees and 30 degrees at 4 m each and "integrated" the measurement as in taken the mean/average (a guess). but it can't be fictitious and most drivers will have a best listening distance.

Of course FR graphs are only a rough guide at best and I will have to do testing and trialling on whichever driver I choose in the end anyway.

It is why I am asking for opinions. You can't choose a driver from looking at its frequency response alone.

Thanks, Dan

 

[griffon]

Consideration of F3 and Qts seem a bit superfluous when you are intending to cross over in the region of 200Hz, (depending to some extent on the order of crossover.)

correct but I was aiming to have the crossover an octave above the Fb and so the lower I can get the Fb and F3 the less work required for the subwoofer.

Thanks, Dan

 

[Nelson Pass]

I have (or have had) all of these drivers in systems with a woofer, so
I will share my conclusions about what works most often:

Acoustic crossover point (not necessarily electronic point) at about 150 Hz,
and this takes lots of adjustability, with as many as 4 poles.

Low Q equalization centered anywhere from 2 KHz to 10 KHz and variable
from -2 to -6 dB. Here is an example curve set:

 

[griffon]

I have (or have had) all of these drivers in systems with a woofer, so
I will share my conclusions about what works most often:

Which of the drivers did you prefer or would you personally choose to use in a sealed application?

I suppose I am wondering if Voxativ are worth the extra money because they would certainly need a bigger box unfortunately?

Thanks Dan

 

[DrBoar]

The Seas 8" fullrange driver has a usable x-maxin a closed box and Seas drivers often sound "right#
H1597-08 FA22RCZ

 

[xrk971]

In a sealed box with XO above 300Hz, the 5MR450NDY sounds very good. Superb in a tractrix horn. There is a peak at 10k but easy to filter out.

 

[griffon]

Acoustic crossover point (not necessarily electronic point) at about 150 Hz, and this takes lots of adjustability, with as many as 4 poles.

I doubt that the natural fall-off for the enclosure will end up being 150Hz and as I said I would want to crossover at almost an octave above the box resonance point. I was probably going to leave bi-wired and bi-amped to allow linkwitz riley crossover use.
I don't know what you mean by adjustability with 4 poles, thought that an acoustic cross-over is the natural fall-off of the enclosure.

Thanks Dan

 

[griffon]

The Seas 8" fullrange driver has a usable x-maxin a closed box and Seas drivers often sound "right#
H1597-08 FA22RCZ

I am not sure that the seas drivers would compare with the drivers that I am looking at. Perhaps the exotic might but the drivers i am looking at are 16 ohm and over 100dB/1W/1m which the seas drivers are not capable of.
I've heard people say that seas often sound right but I have heard plenty of praise for the Voxativs, AERs, and Feastrexs also.

Thanks Dan

 

[Nelson Pass]

In a sealed box with XO above 300Hz, the 5MR450NDY sounds very good. Superb in a tractrix horn. There is a peak at 10k but easy to filter out.

Satori MW13PNW-8 from Madisound is another good option

 

[xrk971]

Satori MW13PNW-8 from Madisound is another good option

Thanks, Mr Pass. Interesting suggestion, I always thought of it as a mid, but looking at graph says otherwise:

Only 87dB though whereas 5MR450NDY is 95dB (no bass), whereas the Satori could be used to actually push out some bass if desired with 5mm xmax and fs of 41Hz.

 

[griffon]

Mr Pass,
I don't suppose I could push you for a bit of a detailed comparison of the drivers I mentioned earlier which you say you have owned?
I am especially wanting a comparison between AER and Voxativ if Possible?

Thanks Dan

 

[Nelson Pass]

It is my personal opinion that the Voxative has a smoother quality to
the upper mid / top end. Purely subjective - someone else might praise
the AER for its detail...

I no longer have the AER's, so I'm not in a position to revisit that particular
driver, but it fares comparably from my recollection.

Also, we could add the SALs to the list, and I should mention that I have
not had the Supravox drivers.

 

[griffon]

Thank you for your help Mr Pass.

Dan

 

[griffon]

The SAL drivers are very cool looking but they don't share response graphs as usual with the full range companies. I like to know where I am roughly at least.
I am leaning towards the Voxativ as they are offering me a pair at a good price and they are more attractive than AER. here is a frequency response for the driver in 2 different enclosures. (I love how different the response is at the high freq. for both units, exactly why freq responses are only rough guides for us to use


yellow is Voxativ Pi, red is Zeth


Dan

 

[zman01]

griffon,

Have you heard of these guys?

Cube Audio fullrange drivers and loudspeakers

They have some measurements on their site too.

 

[Bigun]

Thanks, Mr Pass. Interesting suggestion, I always thought of it as a mid, but looking at graph says otherwise:

Only 87dB though whereas 5MR450NDY is 95dB (no bass), whereas the Satori could be used to actually push out some bass if desired with 5mm xmax and fs of 41Hz.

the curves above 5k are clearly for the 'brave' - at what point is it simply better to XO to a super-tweeter when you see curves like that ?

 

[Roby60]

Hello everybody.
i follow this tread because i have the idea to use this driver :
https://www.supravox.fr/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Fiche-Produit-165-2000-UK.pdf in exc / exc-si version

for 35 Liters enclosure, activ bi-amping, cut around 150hz, 3m listening position.
Maybe i can see why is not a competitor, wait and see.
I apologize for my bad English.