Every parallel (to array) ridge potentially is a source of trouble. The absorption such a worm brings could likely have prevented several closely spaced reflections somewhere further along that wall.
I don't experience something resembling "fluttering" here, although, not that I know of.
Does the stage change size depending on the song? To explain it a bit more, I started with a wide, but not deep soundstage, wide especially on one side. However every song I played had that feature. With the damping panel on the wall beside the array that changed for good. Now the stage adjusts to what it is fed. It can both be small and intimate but also huge, wide and deep. It depends on the song.
That seems like a good indication (with the measurements showing the difference too) to know it's not the room that dictates imaging.
Getting the same effect on every song gets tiresome. Even though it might knock you off your feet the first time.
Are you still planning to try a PC and FIR filtering? If you do, do try some mid/side EQ (linear phase) too.
I don't experience something resembling "fluttering" here, although, not that I know of.
Does the stage change size depending on the song? To explain it a bit more, I started with a wide, but not deep soundstage, wide especially on one side. However every song I played had that feature. With the damping panel on the wall beside the array that changed for good. Now the stage adjusts to what it is fed. It can both be small and intimate but also huge, wide and deep. It depends on the song.
That seems like a good indication (with the measurements showing the difference too) to know it's not the room that dictates imaging.
Getting the same effect on every song gets tiresome. Even though it might knock you off your feet the first time.
Are you still planning to try a PC and FIR filtering? If you do, do try some mid/side EQ (linear phase) too.
Yes. I took down the "worms". Better - I suspect they create diffraction. I will tweak them to flat absorbers instead and see how that works. It's very good without so...
They sing nicely and I howl along myself in pure happiness at times :-D
I'm now tweaking EQ by ear - like 0,5 dB. This the LT in the bass and a Q 0,5 at 3k which I now have at -2 but will change to -1,5.
//
They sing nicely and I howl along myself in pure happiness at times :-D
I'm now tweaking EQ by ear - like 0,5 dB. This the LT in the bass and a Q 0,5 at 3k which I now have at -2 but will change to -1,5.
//
I have a dip at ~3.7 KHz, only on phantom material, a slight raise at the same spot for the side panned sounds. See: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/242171-towers-25-driver-range-line-array-429.html#post5460331
This effect is highly dependant on early reflections, or rather the absence of those in my case. It also depends on what the power response of the speakers is at that point, so in your case a slight raise might sound perfect.
If you do have early reflections, all of this might not work. This is for a stereo triangle at 2.5 to 3m listening distance. It counters some of the cross talk happening for phantom sounds at those frequencies. Lots of people prefer a slight dip, also known (though not rightfully so) as the BBC dip.
A lot of mixes tend to sound harsh at or around 3 KHz. I've narrowed it down to 3.7 KHz by doing lots of experiments in my room at the listening spot (with my 'pretty average' head size and speaker distances).
I think you were referring to (or remembering) a raise with low Q I had around 2 KHz, that gave more depth impression. If you look at the graph I showed here you'll see the graph bends there slightly. More experimenting led to that bend at ~1750 Hz, before I even realized that was exactly what JBL had found.
I went even further with the dip for phantom material at ~600 Hz, with a raise for side panned sounds at the same spot. Remember my fascination with the JRiver Surround Field effect? This ultimately replaced that tweak.
This effect is highly dependant on early reflections, or rather the absence of those in my case. It also depends on what the power response of the speakers is at that point, so in your case a slight raise might sound perfect.
If you do have early reflections, all of this might not work. This is for a stereo triangle at 2.5 to 3m listening distance. It counters some of the cross talk happening for phantom sounds at those frequencies. Lots of people prefer a slight dip, also known (though not rightfully so) as the BBC dip.
A lot of mixes tend to sound harsh at or around 3 KHz. I've narrowed it down to 3.7 KHz by doing lots of experiments in my room at the listening spot (with my 'pretty average' head size and speaker distances).
I think you were referring to (or remembering) a raise with low Q I had around 2 KHz, that gave more depth impression. If you look at the graph I showed here you'll see the graph bends there slightly. More experimenting led to that bend at ~1750 Hz, before I even realized that was exactly what JBL had found.
I went even further with the dip for phantom material at ~600 Hz, with a raise for side panned sounds at the same spot. Remember my fascination with the JRiver Surround Field effect? This ultimately replaced that tweak.
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Keep the dip at 3K, raise the Q
I wasn't really clear... the filter is at -2. But now at -1,5
It's a broad rise so needs low Q to mitigate.//
I'm having an increased crush on my lines :-D
Findings:
- They need to sit still. My fastening to the walls seem not ideal. The biggest improvement in perceived absence of distorsion and effortlessness came when I put wedges in the small gaps (1-4mm) between the wall and enclosure. After that the sound transformed really - surprising.
- They need power. I run them on my Icepower ASP1000. I'm planning something new but have promised myself to sell some of the shelf-warmers before I do.
- Current EQ: (HighSelf/Peq, Fo, Q, Level). This is OK. Remains some tweaking in upper bass fortunately I have one BQ left.
dam1021.352800.8.16.5.1
16 HS 110 0.8 -10
0.316453901814574
-0.631873942937046
0.315422197324367
1.998163184945920
-0.998165341147820
dam1021.352800.8.17.5.1
17 P 250 4 -3
0.999806......
dam1021.352800.8.18.5.1
18 P 305 1.8 -11
dam1021.352800.8.19.5.1
19 HS 6k 0.6 2.5
dam1021.352800.8.20.5.1
20 P 3.7k 5 -2
dam1021.352800.8.21.5.1
21 HS 6k 0.5 6
dam1021.352800.8.22.5.1
22 HS 6k 0.5 6
dam1021.352800.8.23.5.1
23 HS 2.4k 0.8 -2
dam1021.352800.8.24.5.1
24 P 7.5k 8 -3
dam1021.352800.8.25.5.1
25 P 12k 8 -5
dam1021.352800.8.26.5.1
26 P 1150 6 -3
dam1021.352800.8.27.5.1
27 P 1150 0.7 0.7
//
Findings:
- They need to sit still. My fastening to the walls seem not ideal. The biggest improvement in perceived absence of distorsion and effortlessness came when I put wedges in the small gaps (1-4mm) between the wall and enclosure. After that the sound transformed really - surprising.
- They need power. I run them on my Icepower ASP1000. I'm planning something new but have promised myself to sell some of the shelf-warmers before I do.
- Current EQ: (HighSelf/Peq, Fo, Q, Level). This is OK. Remains some tweaking in upper bass fortunately I have one BQ left.
dam1021.352800.8.16.5.1
16 HS 110 0.8 -10
0.316453901814574
-0.631873942937046
0.315422197324367
1.998163184945920
-0.998165341147820
dam1021.352800.8.17.5.1
17 P 250 4 -3
0.999806......
dam1021.352800.8.18.5.1
18 P 305 1.8 -11
dam1021.352800.8.19.5.1
19 HS 6k 0.6 2.5
dam1021.352800.8.20.5.1
20 P 3.7k 5 -2
dam1021.352800.8.21.5.1
21 HS 6k 0.5 6
dam1021.352800.8.22.5.1
22 HS 6k 0.5 6
dam1021.352800.8.23.5.1
23 HS 2.4k 0.8 -2
dam1021.352800.8.24.5.1
24 P 7.5k 8 -3
dam1021.352800.8.25.5.1
25 P 12k 8 -5
dam1021.352800.8.26.5.1
26 P 1150 6 -3
dam1021.352800.8.27.5.1
27 P 1150 0.7 0.7
//
I learned something new today, see: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/242171-towers-25-driver-range-line-array-492.html#post5789576
I remembered the above post by me, and the schematics I put up for you. Here's the sim for 150 watt into 3 series of 8 parallel drivers:
I know you use less and the drivers you used are a bit different from the TC9. But I only became aware of this today and thought I should confess/share.
If you did what I advised you (sim in Xsim) I'm probably not telling you anything new (I hope).
Attachments
I did this:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...-fr10hm-corner-ceiling-floor-array-graph3-jpg
I'm really not so worried. As long as the system shows a decent impedance and equal power distribution between drivers is maintained I don't think wiring matters much.
//
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/att...-fr10hm-corner-ceiling-floor-array-graph3-jpg
I'm really not so worried. As long as the system shows a decent impedance and equal power distribution between drivers is maintained I don't think wiring matters much.
//
Open Line Surgery...
My lines has served me well during the years but for some time now I have heard som worrying noise from left channel. After some investigation I managed to identity the troubled driver - exercising it showed it had a rubbing coil. Now, I did glue all drivers deliberately and knew servicing it would perhaps not be easy - now the day have come when its necessary. By a chisel and a hammer I managed to kind of pry the driver out and the glue let go.
I now have a driver soldered back - the wiring was tight so I had to extend the plus lead to the driver in order to make soldering possible. It's now there and playing so thats good.
Now how to glue it back - I dont want to take down the cabinet so I have tp find a way to fixate the driver while standing up. Need to do some temporary jig to secure the position...
//
My lines has served me well during the years but for some time now I have heard som worrying noise from left channel. After some investigation I managed to identity the troubled driver - exercising it showed it had a rubbing coil. Now, I did glue all drivers deliberately and knew servicing it would perhaps not be easy - now the day have come when its necessary. By a chisel and a hammer I managed to kind of pry the driver out and the glue let go.
I now have a driver soldered back - the wiring was tight so I had to extend the plus lead to the driver in order to make soldering possible. It's now there and playing so thats good.
Now how to glue it back - I dont want to take down the cabinet so I have tp find a way to fixate the driver while standing up. Need to do some temporary jig to secure the position...
//
Thanks! Wow - that sounds like an interesting projekt. 5 yers ... blimey... I had to ask for the thread to be opened - it's nice to have some documentation.
Is the AMT from Onnes? Will you use concrete?
Why dont you start a thread about your project - it would be interesting to read!
Good luck anyways!
//
Is the AMT from Onnes? Will you use concrete?
Why dont you start a thread about your project - it would be interesting to read!
Good luck anyways!
//