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Full range speaker as headphones
Full range speaker as headphones
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:55 PM   #51
hellokitty123 is offline hellokitty123  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adason View Post
I am not discouraging you, just giving some pointers, use 18" as headphone, what do I care...
Haha, I'm just trying to be informed before I go buying large drivers for headphone use.
The cone breakup issue you spoke of is giving me cause for concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
I don't know about you but I like the length of my neck as is.

Besides, I can't see a 15" driver close to your head, as being better than a 4"
Worst case scenario I can sit back in a chair to take the weight off.
The reason I'm thinking a larger driver might be better is because I am using it at a tiny fraction of its intended SPL giving it supposedly much better performance.
But like Adason said, cone breakup is an issue.

Last edited by hellokitty123; 10th July 2018 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 10th July 2018, 06:58 PM   #52
adason is offline adason  United States
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"I'm looking at 8'' betsy drivers and the FR looks very similar to an HD800 3'' headphone driver"

yes, accidentally, but both obtained by completely different technique...headphone measurement are done to dummy head...pointing to inner ear with cochlea
do you think betsy would have the same fr response pointing to the ear?

Last edited by adason; 10th July 2018 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:03 PM   #53
adason is offline adason  United States
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do you know Rutcho's web page? he posted his measurements here many times, but mostly 8"...the biggest he measured was 12"
Audio Nirvana Super8 Cast Frame Fullrange Loudspeaker Measurements Data and Information Full Range

see the waterfall plots I was talking about
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:28 PM   #54
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Full range speaker as headphones
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty123 View Post
The reason I'm thinking a larger driver might be better is because I am using it at a tiny fraction of its intended SPL giving it supposedly much better performance.
Same with a 3" or 4"
Quote:
But like Adason said, cone breakup is an issue.
At the SPL we're talking, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:36 PM   #55
hellokitty123 is offline hellokitty123  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
Same with a 3" or 4"
Yeah but wouldn't the performance increase scale with size?
Larger drivers are designed to sound good at bigger SPLs than smaller ones meaning the distortion reduction should be more significant when using bigger drivers as headphone drivers than smaller ones right?
A larger driver is going to need less excursion than a smaller one for the same SPL, meaning better linearity and slew rate no?

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Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post

At the SPL we're talking, I wouldn't worry about it.
Oh really? That takes a load off.
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Old 10th July 2018, 07:48 PM   #56
Cal Weldon is offline Cal Weldon  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellokitty123 View Post
Yeah but wouldn't the performance increase scale with size?
Immaterial in the case. This is nearfield to an extreme.
Quote:
Larger drivers are designed to sound good at bigger SPLs
Immaterial in the case.
Quote:
A larger driver is going to need less excursion than a smaller one for the same SPL
Immaterial in the case.
Quote:
Oh really? That takes a load off.
Careful, there are two camps here. I happen to be in the one that believes that although cone break up should be as present in low SPL as high, my ears tell me otherwise. If my ears can't hear it, I don't worry about it.
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Old 11th July 2018, 08:01 PM   #57
wilbur-x is offline wilbur-x  Tibet
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Not very different from near-field electrostatic "speakers"
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File Type: jpg jecklin & hyde.jpg (5.9 KB, 43 views)
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Old 11th July 2018, 08:35 PM   #58
Gnobuddy is offline Gnobuddy  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
A Qts of 0.7 or above is suitable for a free-air application such as yours.
This, at least, is easily fixed by inserting an appropriate resistor in series with one wire.

When the resistor is zero ohms (and the amplifier driving the headphones has the usual very low output impedance), the Q of the speaker in free-air is Qts. When the resistor is increased sufficiently, the Q increases to nearly Qms, which is typically between 3 and 10, far higher than you want. For in-between values of resistance, you should be able to dial in the Q of around 0.7 you're looking for (which produces a maximally flat Butterworth 2nd-order high pass filter response.)

Using a series resistor is rather wasteful of power in a typical loudspeaker scenario, but here, the power levels are so low that it's not a concern.

BTW - if you place your ear really close to a 15" speaker, the path length from the edges of the cone to your ear is much larger than the path length from the centre of the cone to your ear. As a result, you will experience deep notches in the frequency response, once the frequency is high enough for the speaker radius to become about 1/3 of the wavelength or more. Expect an erratic and ugly frequency response above a few kilohertz, even if the speaker itself was magically perfect.

This is why you can measure woofer frequency response with a microphone placed a centimetre from the cone, but you have to be aware that the measured response is only good at relatively low frequencies. This is a trick speaker designers sometimes use if they don't have access to an anechoic chamber.

Have you tried the near-field stereo speaker setup typically used by audio engineers when mixing-down recordings? Your head and the two speakers form an equilateral triangle, each side of which is between roughly 1 and 2 metres (3 - 6 ft) long. Speaker at ear height, and several feet away from the nearest wall if at all possible.

IMO, this type of near-field speaker setup gives you an experience with most of the immersive quality of headphones, but with much better stereo imaging than any headphones I've ever tried.

-Gnobuddy
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Old 12th July 2018, 01:04 AM   #59
FullRangeMan is offline FullRangeMan  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur-x View Post
Not very different from near-field electrostatic "speakers"
Click the image to open in full size.
Wow these are the hi regarded swiss Jeckling Float from the 1970s,
I was unaware it was so big.
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Old 12th July 2018, 01:12 AM   #60
FullRangeMan is offline FullRangeMan  Brazil
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galu View Post
Here's Nipper with the mobile Victrola!
Nippel first image is a wax cylinder created by Edison engineers,
Nippel second image is a grammophone.

This is a portable victrola:
Click the image to open in full size.
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