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Karlson koax driver
Karlson koax driver
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Old 2nd July 2018, 06:06 PM   #1
Sarah Rose is offline Sarah Rose
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Wink Karlson koax driver

Hi all there out


me playing a Gotrian grande, a five string contrabass and horn. Jazz, Rock, a bit classic. do have a smaller AMS Neve mixing desk, a Phillips pro 36, two OTL tube amps.
Other old stuff, a bit digital.

Meeting a guy with a 12'' Karlson speaker an old one.

Blown away. A virus? Magic.....


Why?
Horn speakers tend to grew big.

Hifi speakers are sondwise thin 4 me

DSP speakers sound dead to me. No "charm"



A Karlson with a good koax could do the trick.

Maybe bottom to bottom right and left.


In Italy found someone with old Karlon and somting like an "university coax driver" amazing


Crazy I'm hooked


With a new Koax driver HiFi or PA dreaming
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Old 2nd July 2018, 08:06 PM   #2
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Karlson koax driver
with the right coax (or fullrange - or woofer + K-tube) , its one of my my favorite ways of getting music. I also like front loaded horn systems.

For "K12", I've not tried the "Dutch" variant. I probably have 8 or so of Karlson's K12 design, GregB's Karlsonator 12 pair.

Last edited by freddi; 2nd July 2018 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 2nd July 2018, 08:36 PM   #3
Sarah Rose is offline Sarah Rose
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nice good to hear from you. maybe for the high paired with a unity horn...
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Old 3rd July 2018, 08:09 AM   #4
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Karlson koax driver
I'm surprised they aren't more widespread - I've owned large Acoustats with hybrid amps, Tympani 1D, Magnepans, K-horns, Rogers, Spica, Quad, Phase Research, and pieced together horn systems, yet the original Karlson cabinets (K15, K12 & X15) often remain among my favorites and my next speaker will be a Karlson type. Nothing sounds better on bowed or plucked bass viola than K15. It must be braced well - like any other cabinet.

I don't think the 6201 had much motor strength and some examples today may have weakened over time (?) - the 15" University coax with large motor should sound wonderful. Even the old cheap Nirvana Super 10 is a good player in K15. I did not try it in K12 as its frame is meant only to front mount. Super10 as very good in the Karlsonator12. I think Fane's double whizzer fullrange 12 and 15 will play acceptably in K15 and the 12 fine in K12 (sans bass impact)

I have the new PRV 10" fullrange in a "K10" size but think it would sound better in Karlson's real K12. Karlson cabinets with a good match sound wonderful - - the wrong speaker will not work and some attempts to make the type can be tricky.

K-builder Carl Neuser would typically test 3-4 sets of wings for a given coupler - I don't know his testing criteria but do know that the aperture flare can matter quite a bit and make or break the result, so a new K-coupler probably should undergo some subjective testing rather than just gluing on the aperture and assuming everything will be optimal.

There are a couple of guys who make a high end horn system, one had never heard a Karlson, old K15s were loaded and topped
with vintage RCA horns (I think with field coil drivers) - he said it sounded better than the top of the line Wilson speaker.

I've used a few horns on top of K15 - some sound very good - my cone driven tractrix did not. The combination
had the power of a good horn system, better transient response, and much better sound than any FR I've heard.

But - they aren't popular.

Last edited by freddi; 3rd July 2018 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 5th July 2018, 04:05 PM   #5
GM is offline GM  United States
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Yeah, the Ks have a very wide polar response, so ideally needs a very wide waveguide. A vertically oriented Smith horn or similar vertical slot loading would theoretically blend well.

GM
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Old 5th July 2018, 05:47 PM   #6
Sarah Rose is offline Sarah Rose
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Found these

Radian 5312 Neo -8/16

karlson or karlsonator
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Old 6th July 2018, 06:29 AM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Karlson koax driver
that looks pretty pricey. The old one inch distributed source Smith horn in its original orientation sounds pretty good on top of a Karlson/ K-type.

Using a K-tube is good. They just should not be crossed over very low. A K-tube can be placed:

Above the wideband/woofer as Karlson did in his 1965 - 1973 (death) "X15"

this is a "near" X15 copy - the builder accidentally moved the woofer cutout 7/8" upwards - otherwise its pretty close including a cloned K-tube. The cabinet with the blue "wings" is an Acoustic Control 115BK and sporting an extended
version of one of the original X15's tubes. That tube sounds fine but the diameter transitions
muck with its smoothness. Its better to have a tube the same diameter as the compression driver's exit.

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.



On top of the cabinet like Transylvania Power did

Click the image to open in full size.



Or through / extension of a standard coaxial speaker

one would have to try to smooth the transition between the original coax's
horn insert or replace it with a K-tube. David A. Young who used to post at
Job Uflman's old Karlson Speaker forum, converted several coaxial to "koaxial" with K-tube. On the low end, the K-tube could have less output than a little horn.

Wolf von Langa was excited about the K-tube but I think he figured it might be difficult to "sell" to the general public.

For the experimenter on the cheap side, car coaxial with dome tweeters can be easily converted to koaxial with a slotted pipe K-tube

In this video you can see that I used a straight section of pipe to extend the little 5.3" long K-tube so it would reach the main aperture. That removed a lot of the klam's main chamber influence. This particular klam for a 15cx turned out ok and sounds pretty good without the K-tube. There was no attempt to made a smooth transition for this experiment as the coax was already in my klam. I just crammed the pipe down the horn's throat and let it "sail"

YouTube

Last edited by freddi; 6th July 2018 at 06:33 AM.
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Old 6th July 2018, 08:54 AM   #8
Sarah Rose is offline Sarah Rose
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Ok, I'm not looking to go cheap. Not using old drivers I do know quite nothing about. TAD is even more pricy
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Old 6th July 2018, 09:12 AM   #9
Sarah Rose is offline Sarah Rose
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I do guess everybody knows here about. the tube seem triccky to make DIY. a classic three way seems to be a good idea. 2 way too. no need to use huge amps getting a life like feeling. i is all about moving air ...the best statement I ever got
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Old 6th July 2018, 03:27 PM   #10
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Rose View Post
Ok, I'm not looking to go cheap. Not using old drivers I do know quite nothing about. TAD is even more pricy
Hmm, for 5 string bass, you ideally need a ~ 31 Hz Fs, so probably best overall option is one of the coaxes the K15 was designed for; the Altec 604 series, which is still made by GPA in modern form and a pity you didn't post a few weeks ago before their 'across the board' huge price hike, ergo will at least give you a frame-of-reference if too far over budget:

Products - Great Plains Audio

https://greatplainsaudio.com/wp-cont...604_8H_III.pdf

If more mids presence is desired, then add a mid horn on top and XO for a three way.

GM
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Last edited by GM; 6th July 2018 at 03:30 PM.
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