8" as in frame size, or effective cone size?
As you may not have discovered yet, there's more than a bit of confusion in classifying driver size.
That said, my go to suggestion would probably be either Alpair10.3 or its cousin Pluvia11, Fostex FF165WK, or SEAS F22. The latter is the largest cone of the group, and the only one listed with a whizzer cone.
As you may not have discovered yet, there's more than a bit of confusion in classifying driver size.
That said, my go to suggestion would probably be either Alpair10.3 or its cousin Pluvia11, Fostex FF165WK, or SEAS F22. The latter is the largest cone of the group, and the only one listed with a whizzer cone.
The 2 Alpair 10s are outstanding, and can go low, if a bit more limited in how much air they will move — but the higher excursion of the Mark Audios does make the comparison tricky. There are Pensil ML-TL designs for both, and Jim Griffin has also done an ML-TL (none anywhere near 60” long). The SEAS FA22 Chris mentioned is a very good driver but really wants to be in a sealed box (50-60 litres is about right). My 1st thot was the FF225wk which is also an 8” but most feel it really needs a super tweeter. It has been put to good use in a Metronome (ML-Voigt). In the same vein is the Alpair 12pw (only a 6.5”), but it does go considerably higher then the FF225wk, and some find no need to augment its top. We have used a pair of them in a Woden specified ML-TL and they give tremendous bass (a WAW with the A7 as midTweeter). The FF165wk Chris mentioned, also a 6.5” doesn’t need help on the top, i’m not sure if we have a TL for them (it would be an ML-TL), but one could be devised.
Bob Brines also has an ML-TL for the A10s, but he has retired and i don’t know if he is still selling plans.
The TB W8-1772 will be mentioned. I have had a few thru here, they are OK but i feel overpriced. Many that have them really like them, but i recently had a client send his back after getting Alpair 10PeN.
And if we are taking A10s, one would be giving it short shrift to not mention the same size Jordan Eikona. I haven’t heard it (i want to) but it gets very good reviews — i am a bit gunshy after the disappointment of the earlier JX92. And, with the sale on at Madisound it is something like twice as expensive as the Alpair 10.3.
dave
Bob Brines also has an ML-TL for the A10s, but he has retired and i don’t know if he is still selling plans.
The TB W8-1772 will be mentioned. I have had a few thru here, they are OK but i feel overpriced. Many that have them really like them, but i recently had a client send his back after getting Alpair 10PeN.
And if we are taking A10s, one would be giving it short shrift to not mention the same size Jordan Eikona. I haven’t heard it (i want to) but it gets very good reviews — i am a bit gunshy after the disappointment of the earlier JX92. And, with the sale on at Madisound it is something like twice as expensive as the Alpair 10.3.
dave
Some of the time I add a 10kHz+ waveguided compression driver to the 12pw. However, a lot of the time I listen to it by itself. Perhaps it isn't completely hifi, but it is enjoyable. I'm thinking of making new MLTL cabs with the 12pw + a pair of Alpair 5.2.
I'm certainly inspired by your 2X12pw+7.3, but they are just too large for my space.
Thanks guys. I will look into them.
Sorry for the absence of details. Sometime you just have to ask a simple question, because sometimes there really is a simple answer!
My project is a little more complicated than I initially wanted to talk about, but it's basically going to be a folded TL made of two concentrically arranged pipes. The FR driver will be mounted at the end of the outer pipe, and it will fire toward the ceiling. My plan is to mount a Hyperbolic cone above the FR as a waveguide to direct the energy laterally. It's not really all that original. There is quite a bit of imitation happening, and I'm not really trying to hit any specific audiophile mark. It just sounds like fun.
Obviously with what I doing with the waveguide, and not planning to use any other HF supplementation, I want the HF of the FR driver to be sufficient on it's own.
As far as bass, I'm happy if it makes it to 40-50 cycles.
I never thought much about the driver size, but the cutout hole has to be smaller than the 8" inner diameter if my inside pipe, in order to make a seal between the Baffle plate and the pipe.
I plugged two drivers into Hornresp (Dayton PS220, and Wild Burro Betsy). I'm still figuring out the program, but I liked Betsy a little better.
Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll pug in seral more drivers in, and if the project makes it to construction phase I'll post some photos.
Chris
Sorry for the absence of details. Sometime you just have to ask a simple question, because sometimes there really is a simple answer!
My project is a little more complicated than I initially wanted to talk about, but it's basically going to be a folded TL made of two concentrically arranged pipes. The FR driver will be mounted at the end of the outer pipe, and it will fire toward the ceiling. My plan is to mount a Hyperbolic cone above the FR as a waveguide to direct the energy laterally. It's not really all that original. There is quite a bit of imitation happening, and I'm not really trying to hit any specific audiophile mark. It just sounds like fun.
Obviously with what I doing with the waveguide, and not planning to use any other HF supplementation, I want the HF of the FR driver to be sufficient on it's own.
As far as bass, I'm happy if it makes it to 40-50 cycles.
I never thought much about the driver size, but the cutout hole has to be smaller than the 8" inner diameter if my inside pipe, in order to make a seal between the Baffle plate and the pipe.
I plugged two drivers into Hornresp (Dayton PS220, and Wild Burro Betsy). I'm still figuring out the program, but I liked Betsy a little better.
Thanks again for the suggestions. I'll pug in seral more drivers in, and if the project makes it to construction phase I'll post some photos.
Chris
Exactly that, but for a bigger driver, years (probably decades) ago in speaker builder magazine. A speaker for a bass player.
8” ID will want a smaller driver than an 8”. And you need to consider using a driver offset — a big advantage. So you will want to load the driver in the middle of the line and not end load it. Given that you might want to make it a stepped “voigt” with the terminus off the far end of the big pipe. I have a picture somewhere (of both that and the SB design)
dave
Thanks Dave, I would like to see the image, but unless it shows something different than what I think, doing the Voigt Pipe as I understand it, doesn't allow me to "Omni" the speaker. The 360 degree radiation pattern and the Hyperbolic Cone is the fundamental idea of this design, and everything else is a compromise to achieve that!
I recognize that what I'm doing is not ideal TL architecture, and I'm capable of building a better performing speaker, but this is what I want to try because I think it's going to be fun. I also think I might learn a thing or two!
I know I haven't described it in great detail. It's just an 8" pipe inside of a 10" pipe, with a cap on either end and a driver firing out of one of the caps,(I thought about using 3 pipes, but I revised it in the spirit of simplicity). If you have some ideas how I could improve on that concept, but retain the "Omni" capability, I would certainly spend a little bit of time trying to figure out if I could use them!
Thanks,
Chris
Sure it remains possible. 8” pipe + 12” pipe give ~50in2 1st section | driver | 63in2 2nd section. terminus at the bottom — i haven’t drawn the terminus, it is in the annulus, likely a bunch of holes drilled, or a bunch of plumbing pipes of appropriate diameter (it will need to be modelled.
The sketch only shows the relation of the 2 pipes and where the driver would be mounted facing upwards. It is possible to use Saunders trick by use something like 2x4s cut on an angle lengthwise to decrease the cross-section of the “pointy” end of the pipe and to mitigate the abrupt change in cross-section at the driver end. It would need to sit proud of the floor on feet to give the terminus room — actually thinking about that the annulus at the bottom could be left open and the mass-loading vent formed with an appropriately designed base.
That should give you some ideas to think on. Th esktch is about 60” long using 8 & 12” pipe.
dave
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