Hi everyone!
I have a pair of EV 12TRXB drivers and my bass head of a Yorkshire wife is wanting me to build something with more "lovely, lovely bass".
The TS parameters for the drivers that apply to the BIB are:
Fs: 45Hz
Vas: 167 Liters
Qts: .67
This results in box dimensions (approximately) of 80" high, 48" deep and 34" wide. I'm planning in turning them sideways so the 48" dimension is the "width". This will place the drivers about 3 1/2 feet from the side walls and about four feet off the floor. The room is long and narrow so that placement is just about right. I've explained the concept to my wife and she's okay with the size as long as it sounds good.
What sort of bass response should I expect? People who built the BBBIB with the Eminence 12LTA got really good results but I understand the EV 12TRXB is a different animal.
Any thoughts on whether this will work and what I can expect?
I have a pair of EV 12TRXB drivers and my bass head of a Yorkshire wife is wanting me to build something with more "lovely, lovely bass".
The TS parameters for the drivers that apply to the BIB are:
Fs: 45Hz
Vas: 167 Liters
Qts: .67
This results in box dimensions (approximately) of 80" high, 48" deep and 34" wide. I'm planning in turning them sideways so the 48" dimension is the "width". This will place the drivers about 3 1/2 feet from the side walls and about four feet off the floor. The room is long and narrow so that placement is just about right. I've explained the concept to my wife and she's okay with the size as long as it sounds good.
What sort of bass response should I expect? People who built the BBBIB with the Eminence 12LTA got really good results but I understand the EV 12TRXB is a different animal.
Any thoughts on whether this will work and what I can expect?
T-S EV 12TRXB Cabinet Design - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
that proposed cabinet is 10 times the size of a Karlson K15. It would be an option but is tuned in the upper 40's - still, it would probably play better overall. http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
the Karlsonator 12 is smaller than K15, and tuned to ~37Hz so might make more sense for a K - option
there would be damped T-lines to work
12TRX had the stronger lower Q motor.
open baffle makes the most sense overall and will go lower
than a cramped cabinet
that proposed cabinet is 10 times the size of a Karlson K15. It would be an option but is tuned in the upper 40's - still, it would probably play better overall. http://i.imgur.com/oRygnBt.png
the Karlsonator 12 is smaller than K15, and tuned to ~37Hz so might make more sense for a K - option
there would be damped T-lines to work
12TRX had the stronger lower Q motor.
open baffle makes the most sense overall and will go lower
than a cramped cabinet
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- and you guyz call me krazy for the Karlson stuff
Thanks for posting that Freddi, it looks like it will put out pretty good bass.
I don't really mind the size at all, it will work fine in our living space. Turning the cabinets sideways will allow them to be put all the way into the corners and still put the drivers far enough away from the side walls for them to have a chance of sounding decent. I plan on putting record shelves between the cabinets so they won't look like they stick that far out into the room.
I'd really appreciate if one of the guys really familiar with BIB's would weigh in.
I don't really mind the size at all, it will work fine in our living space. Turning the cabinets sideways will allow them to be put all the way into the corners and still put the drivers far enough away from the side walls for them to have a chance of sounding decent. I plan on putting record shelves between the cabinets so they won't look like they stick that far out into the room.
I'd really appreciate if one of the guys really familiar with BIB's would weigh in.
Greets!
News to me unless you're referring to specs required back in the early days when amps had a ~matching impedance, which when combined with wiring, etc., series resistance ~doubles Qts, putting the EV spot on if driven with a modern day's typical very low impedance amp.
GM
Greets!
I don't have the SS, just the math that it was designed with, but for whatever reason get a bit different set of dims for these driver specs, though at this size any theoretical/real differences in response wouldn't be noticed due to room interaction and our poor hearing acuity down low, so the only caution is that the room's dims/construction, driver vertical orientation and where you sit [Lp] will dictate its low end performance, i.e. ideally the drivers, Lp will be at some odd harmonic [peak] of the room's height, width and depth.
Get it blended together right enough and you may wind up needing to use heavy stuffing to tone them down; that, or use digital EQ to shape their response.
That said, depending on the room's gain curve, i.e. really low [<~30 Hz] in a long room [below its first null = ~565 ft/depth], it may be better overall to design for a lower tuning since you apparently have the room [< 20 Hz depending on the type of music and/or how loud you want]; or just use a digital HP filter to protect them.
Regardless, with a few watts, THX reference is doable, so small bar Jazz band loud.
GM
I think the Wolverine series has an even higher Qts so the cabinet would be even bigger than the one I've come up with.
Oh, and my current amp is a 45 SET being used along with a pair of Sachikos with a pair of 98 db 1W/1M efficient Fostex FE206ES-R drivers installed in them. My wife is currently playing Public Service Broadcasting Service's "Race to Space" album at quite a volume.
I intend to put the Fostex drivers into a single horn and move them into my smaller listening room downstairs. I'm considering building a 300B amp to use with the Ev 12TRXB's. I really want to build these BIB's but I don't want to buy the ten sheets of plywood that will be needed if they're going to sound like crap. I may post pics of my living room later if that will help. The room is 12 feet wide but quite long and at the end opposite the speakers opens up into a large space with a vaulted ceiling.
I intend to put the Fostex drivers into a single horn and move them into my smaller listening room downstairs. I'm considering building a 300B amp to use with the Ev 12TRXB's. I really want to build these BIB's but I don't want to buy the ten sheets of plywood that will be needed if they're going to sound like crap. I may post pics of my living room later if that will help. The room is 12 feet wide but quite long and at the end opposite the speakers opens up into a large space with a vaulted ceiling.
My amp is a Korneff 45 SE amp. I'll plead ignorance as to what an AJ horn is. I think you can take the output impedance of a 300B SE amp into a 5K transformer to get an idea of the output impedance of the amp that I'm looking to use with this speaker. If SE amps won't work with high Qts drivers in a BIB that is definitely something I'm looking to learn NOW rather than later after buying ten sheets of plywood.
I really appreciate the help I receive here (as always) I'm so appreciative of the time and effort that the more knowledgeable guys spend to help us newbies out to guide us in the right direction.
I want to build this project if it will sound good. I have a mint pair of the white basket 16 ohm 12TRXB drivers waiting to be used. I know that the best use for these drivers might be open baffle but if they'd give me good bass in ludicrously sized BIB's then hey, why not? In any case, thanks!
I really appreciate the help I receive here (as always) I'm so appreciative of the time and effort that the more knowledgeable guys spend to help us newbies out to guide us in the right direction.
I want to build this project if it will sound good. I have a mint pair of the white basket 16 ohm 12TRXB drivers waiting to be used. I know that the best use for these drivers might be open baffle but if they'd give me good bass in ludicrously sized BIB's then hey, why not? In any case, thanks!
output Z probably 2-3 ohms - - some reader should know how to best input BIB type into hornresp for double check. I can see your game - full audio range on fleawatt at the price of bulk.
my version of AJ-horn is from a long time ago. It seems a good tool overall.
AJ-Systems - Loudspeaker simulation with AJHorn
my version of AJ-horn is from a long time ago. It seems a good tool overall.
AJ-Systems - Loudspeaker simulation with AJHorn
Hi all, I've decided to change this project a bit.
I put the 12TRXB drivers into JE Labs open baffles and while they sounded good, one of them has a voice coil rub. Rather than purchase another, I came up with a different idea after coming across a clone of the QSC waveguides on closeout at Parts Express.
B-52 PHRN-1014 1" Horn 10" x 14" Bolt-On
My idea is to build a pair of BBBIB Econowaves a'la Wilberforce's Econowaves using Brociner corner horns. Link:
What Would YOU Do With This Cabinet?
I'm planning on inverting the drivers so the waveguide is on the bottom closer to ear level.
JBL 2220H driver spec sheet:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2220hj.pdf
Fs: 37Hz
Qts: .17
Vas: 300L
Even though they will be big they will be more manageable than the 12TRXB's in a BIB cabinet.
It's going to be used with a single ended amp, the compression driver will be the B&C de250.
I'm currently trying to track down the woofers, I'll probably purchase the compression drivers and crossover components from Parts Express. If someone has a used pair of the woofers or the de250 drivers they want to sell I'd be interested. I'm also interested in Econowave crossover circuit boards.
One thing is that the woofer is a very low Qts driver and I seem to remember that when using a driver of that sort with amplifiers with a low damping factor you should oversize the cabinet cross sectional area by putting in a higher Qts into the BIB calculator. I'm sure that I read that but can't find the info anywhere.
Thoughts? Ideas?
I put the 12TRXB drivers into JE Labs open baffles and while they sounded good, one of them has a voice coil rub. Rather than purchase another, I came up with a different idea after coming across a clone of the QSC waveguides on closeout at Parts Express.
B-52 PHRN-1014 1" Horn 10" x 14" Bolt-On
My idea is to build a pair of BBBIB Econowaves a'la Wilberforce's Econowaves using Brociner corner horns. Link:
What Would YOU Do With This Cabinet?
I'm planning on inverting the drivers so the waveguide is on the bottom closer to ear level.
JBL 2220H driver spec sheet:
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2220hj.pdf
Fs: 37Hz
Qts: .17
Vas: 300L
Even though they will be big they will be more manageable than the 12TRXB's in a BIB cabinet.
It's going to be used with a single ended amp, the compression driver will be the B&C de250.
I'm currently trying to track down the woofers, I'll probably purchase the compression drivers and crossover components from Parts Express. If someone has a used pair of the woofers or the de250 drivers they want to sell I'd be interested. I'm also interested in Econowave crossover circuit boards.
One thing is that the woofer is a very low Qts driver and I seem to remember that when using a driver of that sort with amplifiers with a low damping factor you should oversize the cabinet cross sectional area by putting in a higher Qts into the BIB calculator. I'm sure that I read that but can't find the info anywhere.
Thoughts? Ideas?
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