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Even BIGGER than Bigger, Badder BIB...
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Old 27th October 2017, 12:15 AM   #11
phivates is offline phivates  United States
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I'd love to do a BIB in our small (not tiny thank you) house. I have 12" Wolverine FRs in my shop at the moment. With foam rings around the whizzer and a coat of acrylic on the cones they are just good enough...wait...is that heresy?
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Old 27th October 2017, 09:32 PM   #12
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.michael droke View Post
Hi there: If I recall correctly, a BIB design works optimally for approximately Qts= .33 to .44. I do not have T/S for 12LTA. Try using cheep OSB for1. ...regards, Michael
Greets!

News to me unless you're referring to specs required back in the early days when amps had a ~matching impedance, which when combined with wiring, etc., series resistance ~doubles Qts, putting the EV spot on if driven with a modern day's typical very low impedance amp.

GM
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Old 27th October 2017, 10:15 PM   #13
GM is offline GM  United States
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Originally Posted by BHD View Post
I'd really appreciate if one of the guys really familiar with BIB's would weigh in.
Greets!

I don't have the SS, just the math that it was designed with, but for whatever reason get a bit different set of dims for these driver specs, though at this size any theoretical/real differences in response wouldn't be noticed due to room interaction and our poor hearing acuity down low, so the only caution is that the room's dims/construction, driver vertical orientation and where you sit [Lp] will dictate its low end performance, i.e. ideally the drivers, Lp will be at some odd harmonic [peak] of the room's height, width and depth.

Get it blended together right enough and you may wind up needing to use heavy stuffing to tone them down; that, or use digital EQ to shape their response.

That said, depending on the room's gain curve, i.e. really low [<~30 Hz] in a long room [below its first null = ~565 ft/depth], it may be better overall to design for a lower tuning since you apparently have the room [< 20 Hz depending on the type of music and/or how loud you want]; or just use a digital HP filter to protect them.

Regardless, with a few watts, THX reference is doable, so small bar Jazz band loud.

GM
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Old 29th October 2017, 12:36 AM   #14
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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Thanks for weighing in GM! I'm considering how to brace it, whether or not the back will be removable for alterations to stuffing, etc.

What were the dimensions that you came up with? I'm just curious.
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Old 29th October 2017, 12:41 AM   #15
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phivates View Post
I'd love to do a BIB in our small (not tiny thank you) house. I have 12" Wolverine FRs in my shop at the moment. With foam rings around the whizzer and a coat of acrylic on the cones they are just good enough...wait...is that heresy?
I think the Wolverine series has an even higher Qts so the cabinet would be even bigger than the one I've come up with.
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Old 29th October 2017, 12:55 AM   #16
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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Oh, and my current amp is a 45 SET being used along with a pair of Sachikos with a pair of 98 db 1W/1M efficient Fostex FE206ES-R drivers installed in them. My wife is currently playing Public Service Broadcasting Service's "Race to Space" album at quite a volume.

I intend to put the Fostex drivers into a single horn and move them into my smaller listening room downstairs. I'm considering building a 300B amp to use with the Ev 12TRXB's. I really want to build these BIB's but I don't want to buy the ten sheets of plywood that will be needed if they're going to sound like crap. I may post pics of my living room later if that will help. The room is 12 feet wide but quite long and at the end opposite the speakers opens up into a large space with a vaulted ceiling.
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Old 29th October 2017, 03:16 AM   #17
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Even BIGGER than Bigger, Badder BIB...
FWIW, in AJ-horn, I put 3 then 4 ohms in front of the driver and horn combo in the crossover simulator section - response looked good (maybe better fwiw) - its the only way I know how to sim your amp's output Z. (30 ohms source Z looked funky)
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Old 29th October 2017, 03:33 AM   #18
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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My amp is a Korneff 45 SE amp. I'll plead ignorance as to what an AJ horn is. I think you can take the output impedance of a 300B SE amp into a 5K transformer to get an idea of the output impedance of the amp that I'm looking to use with this speaker. If SE amps won't work with high Qts drivers in a BIB that is definitely something I'm looking to learn NOW rather than later after buying ten sheets of plywood.

I really appreciate the help I receive here (as always) I'm so appreciative of the time and effort that the more knowledgeable guys spend to help us newbies out to guide us in the right direction.

I want to build this project if it will sound good. I have a mint pair of the white basket 16 ohm 12TRXB drivers waiting to be used. I know that the best use for these drivers might be open baffle but if they'd give me good bass in ludicrously sized BIB's then hey, why not? In any case, thanks!
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Old 29th October 2017, 05:52 AM   #19
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Even BIGGER than Bigger, Badder BIB...
output Z probably 2-3 ohms - - some reader should know how to best input BIB type into hornresp for double check. I can see your game - full audio range on fleawatt at the price of bulk.

my version of AJ-horn is from a long time ago. It seems a good tool overall.
AJ-Systems - Loudspeaker simulation with AJHorn
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Old 2nd October 2018, 03:12 PM   #20
BHD is offline BHD  United States
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Hi all, I've decided to change this project a bit.

I put the 12TRXB drivers into JE Labs open baffles and while they sounded good, one of them has a voice coil rub. Rather than purchase another, I came up with a different idea after coming across a clone of the QSC waveguides on closeout at Parts Express.

B-52 PHRN-1014 1" Horn 10" x 14" Bolt-On

My idea is to build a pair of BBBIB Econowaves a'la Wilberforce's Econowaves using Brociner corner horns. Link:

What Would YOU Do With This Cabinet?

I'm planning on inverting the drivers so the waveguide is on the bottom closer to ear level.

JBL 2220H driver spec sheet:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2220hj.pdf

Fs: 37Hz
Qts: .17
Vas: 300L

Even though they will be big they will be more manageable than the 12TRXB's in a BIB cabinet.

It's going to be used with a single ended amp, the compression driver will be the B&C de250.

I'm currently trying to track down the woofers, I'll probably purchase the compression drivers and crossover components from Parts Express. If someone has a used pair of the woofers or the de250 drivers they want to sell I'd be interested. I'm also interested in Econowave crossover circuit boards.

One thing is that the woofer is a very low Qts driver and I seem to remember that when using a driver of that sort with amplifiers with a low damping factor you should oversize the cabinet cross sectional area by putting in a higher Qts into the BIB calculator. I'm sure that I read that but can't find the info anywhere.

Thoughts? Ideas?
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