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What do you guys/gals think of PVC for FR enclosure?
What do you guys/gals think of PVC for FR enclosure?
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:31 PM   #51
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Well I perfectly understand the physics of both line arrays and harmonics, yet I do not agree that 3th order harmonics bring clarity. Any deviation from the intended direct sound would still be distortion. If it seems to bring clarity it would still be a deviation from what should have been heard. I know what you're getting at, I just wouldn't want that.

Sorry to say but I disagree whole hearty with your claim here.

This also has nothing to do with the Haas effect. All kind of harmonics propagating back trough the cone would definitely be a form of distortion. No way around that.
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:49 PM   #52
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
But remember since the line array is not producing distorted harmonics, its only the natural harmonics of the music itself.
.......that are being distorted?
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Old 5th November 2017, 12:55 PM   #53
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Anything that travels back trough the cone would still be distortion, and no, third order won't add clarity. Not in a true sense anyway. If it weren't there it would be clearer.

That is not to say "some" like the effect that 3rd order can "add". I'm definitely not one of them.
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Old 5th November 2017, 01:09 PM   #54
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
And even order harmonics bring a bigness to the sound, whereas 3rd order brings clarity and timbre. If you use tubes as your cabinet, then you wonít have any even order harmonics coming back through the wave since the physics of sound in a closed tube simply doesnít allow even order harmonics to be produced. So the back wave consists entirely of the original sound 180 degree out of phase and odd order harmonics.
Are you talking about the harmonics produced by the speaker/cabinet or the effect of harmonics on timbre? The harmonics of interest already exist in the signal, it is not desireable to add or subtract (distort) them
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Old 5th November 2017, 05:58 PM   #55
Dr1v3n is offline Dr1v3n  United States
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I'm liking the sheen of this paint. This is just the first coat of gloss black on 3 of the backsides of the tubes and 4 mounts. More to come...

Tacky in 15 minutes. 30 minutes dry enough to handle.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:22 PM   #56
Zarathu is offline Zarathu  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post

Sorry to say but I disagree whole hearty with your claim here.
No offense, but you donít understand what Iím talking about, claim or not.

So weíll just have to let it go since Iím not going to go into explaining the physics of even and odd order harmonics in music(as well as their effects on perceived sound) and the physics of sound propagation in closed cylinders.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:30 PM   #57
Dr1v3n is offline Dr1v3n  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
...I’m not going to go into explaining the physics of even and odd order harmonics in music(as well as their effects on perceived sound) and the physics of sound propagation in closed cylinders.
That's what this is all about people! I'm transitioning from a rectangle to a tube enclosure for this array. Zarathu has given some good insight, although I've not read the suggested book yet.

I aimed for a smallish tube, close to sphere, because of the diffraction results posted by Dave earlier in this thread
So observe the "cube" response and since this is the same as rectangle, one sees my "boomy" statement realized from this enclosure.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by Dr1v3n; 5th November 2017 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:38 PM   #58
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Supply some literature that supports these claims.

I've read a whole lot of them and the general agreement does not fit your description at all.

Start with showing how second order wave coming back trough a cone can cause boominess... That's a pretty big one right there. It would need to include measurements to show us what happens. I'm not going to assume you're right. Even all AES graphs I've come across claim the opposite of your story here.

Don't let it go, educate us!

Edit: Every even and odd harmonic I aim to hear has already been recorded and is in the songs I play. I have no desire to add any more to that.
I've done the best I could to limit what my speakers and room add here, second order would be the most forgiving as it's easier masked. Yet I'd try to keep all added harmonics to a minimum. This starts with using speaker drivers with shorting rings.
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Last edited by wesayso; 5th November 2017 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:43 PM   #59
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr1v3n View Post
That's what this is all about people! I'm transitioning from a rectangle to a tube enclosure for this array. Zarathu has given some good insight, although I've not read the suggested book yet.

I aimed for a smallish tube, close to sphere, because of the diffraction results posted by Dave earlier in this thread
So observe the "cube" response and since this is the same as rectangle, one sees my "boomy" statement realized from this enclosure.
Click the image to open in full size.
You do realize that a driver in the middle of a cylinder corresponds pretty good to the 3rd picture, right? The radius of your endcap will determine the success of it's anti diffraction shape (that's what these pictures show).

The sphere has to have a pretty big radius to be effective over a wide enough frequency area (Think B&W 800 series)

What do you guys/gals think of PVC for FR enclosure?-bw802-jpg
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Old 5th November 2017, 07:48 PM   #60
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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What do you guys/gals think of PVC for FR enclosure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Supply some literature that supports these claims.
I also find some of Zarathuís claims hard to give credence to.

dave
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