My first Amp Camp amps are to be built soon and a B1 buffer has just been completed. So it’s time to decide what speakers to build.
I suspect that there may never be consensus on the ideal DIY speaker to bring out the best in the ACA’s, but I’m trying to draw up a short list for the speaker build. The listening area is 18 feet long x 13 feet wide. It’s just for normal home use - no parties.
So far, someone has suggested in another thread that 8” or 10” classic Audio Nirvana full range drivers would work well (no mention of the enclosure, though). I have also been eyeing single 5”Dayton Audio PA130-8 drivers in 0.53x Karlsonators.
I’m considering the Karlsonators because it suits my budget, but I can’t help but wonder if there are other suitable options.
Christo
I suspect that there may never be consensus on the ideal DIY speaker to bring out the best in the ACA’s, but I’m trying to draw up a short list for the speaker build. The listening area is 18 feet long x 13 feet wide. It’s just for normal home use - no parties.
So far, someone has suggested in another thread that 8” or 10” classic Audio Nirvana full range drivers would work well (no mention of the enclosure, though). I have also been eyeing single 5”Dayton Audio PA130-8 drivers in 0.53x Karlsonators.
I’m considering the Karlsonators because it suits my budget, but I can’t help but wonder if there are other suitable options.
Christo
Actually, different amps will have a very marginal effect compared to the effects different rooms have. Your amp may be nice, but there's no magic in any amp out there that will make a horrible room sound good. Not saying your room is horrible! 
Just making a point.
Build speakers according to the room, your music preferences, and other issues that may occur, like design matching with the decor and size restrictions... and yes, your amp.
Add room treatments as much as possible, with the same constraints as above....
AN 8" driver in a horn, or 5" karlsonators will sound totally different.
Narrow your search with a set of goals first. Then, see what designs fit your goals.
Just making a point.Build speakers according to the room, your music preferences, and other issues that may occur, like design matching with the decor and size restrictions... and yes, your amp.
Add room treatments as much as possible, with the same constraints as above....
AN 8" driver in a horn, or 5" karlsonators will sound totally different.
Narrow your search with a set of goals first. Then, see what designs fit your goals.
Thanks Perceval. That sounds like good advice. Although a newbie like me wouldn't know what designs to choose based on a set of goals. It's all really very new to me.
i am currently using a set of ACA. They play at levels much higher than one would expect from their power rating.
I am currenly using them with Tysen V2 (FAST with the passive XO, FF85wKeN & a pair of Silver FluteW14) but Frugel-Horn XL (with Alpair 10p) and Frugel-Horn Lite (with Alpair 5.2) aldo worked well at diYFEST a couple weeks ago. I have happily used these with any of the speakers i have in-house (too numerous to list).
You’d likely be happy with any of the Mark Audio Alpairs (which are all good), Fostex FF105wk/165wk.
Chhose drivers & boxes (there are lots of choices of those) for your room and listening tastes.
make, what does the impedance curve of your OB look like? The ACA need to be treated like an SE tube amp — ie nice smooth impedance with no big bump caused by an XO.
A note of the ANs, i have simulated quite a few of them and it is hard to find a box for many of them. Surprisingly, hard to get bass out of a lot of them. My listening experience only extends to a few of them… some discontinued stamped basket ones which were less than satisfying, and the Cast 10” which had potential (they needed more break-in when i heard them) and we could actually build a box for them. My only caveat was that they are pricey for what you get.
dave
I am currenly using them with Tysen V2 (FAST with the passive XO, FF85wKeN & a pair of Silver FluteW14) but Frugel-Horn XL (with Alpair 10p) and Frugel-Horn Lite (with Alpair 5.2) aldo worked well at diYFEST a couple weeks ago. I have happily used these with any of the speakers i have in-house (too numerous to list).
You’d likely be happy with any of the Mark Audio Alpairs (which are all good), Fostex FF105wk/165wk.
Chhose drivers & boxes (there are lots of choices of those) for your room and listening tastes.
make, what does the impedance curve of your OB look like? The ACA need to be treated like an SE tube amp — ie nice smooth impedance with no big bump caused by an XO.
A note of the ANs, i have simulated quite a few of them and it is hard to find a box for many of them. Surprisingly, hard to get bass out of a lot of them. My listening experience only extends to a few of them… some discontinued stamped basket ones which were less than satisfying, and the Cast 10” which had potential (they needed more break-in when i heard them) and we could actually build a box for them. My only caveat was that they are pricey for what you get.
dave
That's why you can ask here, after you mention what are the things you are looking for, the kind of listening you expect to do, and the limitations you have to deal with.
Just asking What should I build? will get you a flurry of answers, and you still won't know what to do...
What I listen to: Lounge, Blues, the occasional Jazz and mostly female vocal, although Leonard Cohen is also a favourite. Throw in some Gotan Project and Pink Floyd and I'm happy. I have discovered that it is particularly difficult to get decent bass out of Pink Floyd's Time. I always crave a little more 'roar' from the piece that starts at 0:53. Surprisingly, my 2.1 Creative desktop set seems to have that roar. Must be the subwoofer doing its bit.
Stuff like House and Dubstep (eg. Alice DeeJay) I never listen to, so I don’t want or need a boom box.
It would be nice to have medium to moderate volume, but not too loud. As I've mentioned before, it's not for parties.
Open baffle is not going to be my first choice. I'm able to construct an enclosure.
Tall order? Maybe... But I’d like to see what others suggest and then I’ll decide what to build. Price is definitely also a consideration. I can’t understand why shipping is so expensive at Parts Express.
Stuff like House and Dubstep (eg. Alice DeeJay) I never listen to, so I don’t want or need a boom box.
It would be nice to have medium to moderate volume, but not too loud. As I've mentioned before, it's not for parties.
Open baffle is not going to be my first choice. I'm able to construct an enclosure.
Tall order? Maybe... But I’d like to see what others suggest and then I’ll decide what to build. Price is definitely also a consideration. I can’t understand why shipping is so expensive at Parts Express.
Well, nothing will give you bass like a real subwoofer.
But it f you want to keep it simple, with good enough bass, the karlsonators are pretty good, but if you are not looking at efficiency and as loud as a 3" driver can be, the TABAQs will dig a little lower.
A buddy here listened to my pair of TABAQs and was really surprised how much bass was coming out of them, while listening to Pink Floyd or Daft Punk.
They are small enough for your room, but put out a nice vast sound. Placing them directly on the back wall, you wouldn't need a BSC to tame the highs a bit. Otherwise, adding a BSC for them is very simple.
And if using a high efficiency driver like the 3FE22, they would be plenty loud, with your little ACA.
Plenty of other drivers to choose from in the TABAQ thread.
But it f you want to keep it simple, with good enough bass, the karlsonators are pretty good, but if you are not looking at efficiency and as loud as a 3" driver can be, the TABAQs will dig a little lower.
A buddy here listened to my pair of TABAQs and was really surprised how much bass was coming out of them, while listening to Pink Floyd or Daft Punk.
They are small enough for your room, but put out a nice vast sound. Placing them directly on the back wall, you wouldn't need a BSC to tame the highs a bit. Otherwise, adding a BSC for them is very simple.
And if using a high efficiency driver like the 3FE22, they would be plenty loud, with your little ACA.
Plenty of other drivers to choose from in the TABAQ thread.
The comment about Pink Floyd remided me of listening to Dark Side of the Moon coming from the back deck at a diyFEST a couple years ago. Really quite amazing bottom. And even more amazing when one considers it was coming from a 4” EL70 driver in a compact floorstander.
The EL70 is long gone but the new Mark Audio Pluvia 7 has pretty much fit into every EL70 box we have looked at which should give it similar bass. Efficincy is a bit higher than what i am currently listing to driven by the ACA (and this in a big room), your description of listening habits seem much like mine, so it might be considered a contender. It has the voicing of the Alpair 7x but isn’t quite as capable wrt reproducing small details. And it is relatively cheap. I’ve linked a UK source (keep in mind you won’t have to pay UK VAT), but shipping direct from Hong Kong might make that cheaper. There are a ton of EL70 box designs out there and Scott & i are happy to check fitment of the P7 in them.
dave
The EL70 is long gone but the new Mark Audio Pluvia 7 has pretty much fit into every EL70 box we have looked at which should give it similar bass. Efficincy is a bit higher than what i am currently listing to driven by the ACA (and this in a big room), your description of listening habits seem much like mine, so it might be considered a contender. It has the voicing of the Alpair 7x but isn’t quite as capable wrt reproducing small details. And it is relatively cheap. I’ve linked a UK source (keep in mind you won’t have to pay UK VAT), but shipping direct from Hong Kong might make that cheaper. There are a ton of EL70 box designs out there and Scott & i are happy to check fitment of the P7 in them.
dave
Thanks Perceval and Dave. We're making progress. I'm pretty sure that very good contenders were already mentioned for the top of my list.
Interestingly, I had a listen to Jerry's (twocents) 0.4x Karlsonators with IIRC Peerless (Tymphany) TC9FD18-08 3.5"drivers on Sunday. They were very impressive for their size, and that is why I'm considering the 0.53x Karlsonators with Dayton Audio PA130-8 drivers. However, spectacular as they were, the 0.4x Karlsonators didn't come close to Jerry's Tannoy speakers. I should've asked which model the Tannoys are.
Interestingly, I had a listen to Jerry's (twocents) 0.4x Karlsonators with IIRC Peerless (Tymphany) TC9FD18-08 3.5"drivers on Sunday. They were very impressive for their size, and that is why I'm considering the 0.53x Karlsonators with Dayton Audio PA130-8 drivers. However, spectacular as they were, the 0.4x Karlsonators didn't come close to Jerry's Tannoy speakers. I should've asked which model the Tannoys are.
Perceval
Since you've mentioned the FaitalPro 3FE22, what is your experience with the brand? How do they compare to the other preferred brands, like Dayton, AN, etc? If your answer is positive, it will be first prize because we have a local agent for FaitalPro.
Second question: Why did you suggest a 3" driver and not 4" or 5"? I'm just trying to understand, being a beginner and not having built any DIY audio stuff before.
Christo
Hello Christo,
I heard a Faital driver a long time ago, and only a short while. Many over here consider it to be a fine driver, and it has very reasonable FR, a good extension and higher sensitivity than most 3" out there.
You can't go wrong with it, especially if you have a local distributor.
The 3FE22 has the best FR of their smaller range (and especially the 8 Ohms) and it matches the driver's parameters needed for a TABAQ build. They have the 4FE32, but it's not as well behaved.
A 3" driver, or 4" will offer a better higher extension than 5" to 8" in most cases (but as with everything, not always!)
They will also start beaming at higher frequencies than bigger drivers. Think of it in term of light. Smaller drivers with diffuse the light over a larger area, but bigger drivers will concentrate the higher frequencies into a narrower "beam" of sound... meaning that you will lose the higher frequencies faster when you are not looking at the driver directly.
I actually have a Tang Bang 4" driver in my TABAQs. They dig a little deeper than their 3" version and I get good bass down to 45Hz, and still some with room gain down to 35Hz, but on the upper range, they will die down after 15kHz... which is fine for me as my ears don't hear past that.
I mentioned them because they are crazy easy to build, will give you a huge grin when you realize how deep they can go....
In the thread, there are version for the 3 or 4" drivers, and another for 5 or 6" drivers as well, called the TABAQ Large.
Here's a review of the commercial 3" version of the TABAQs:
YouTube
And since we are showboating, here are mine:
Jeff
I heard a Faital driver a long time ago, and only a short while. Many over here consider it to be a fine driver, and it has very reasonable FR, a good extension and higher sensitivity than most 3" out there.
You can't go wrong with it, especially if you have a local distributor.
The 3FE22 has the best FR of their smaller range (and especially the 8 Ohms) and it matches the driver's parameters needed for a TABAQ build. They have the 4FE32, but it's not as well behaved.
A 3" driver, or 4" will offer a better higher extension than 5" to 8" in most cases (but as with everything, not always!)
They will also start beaming at higher frequencies than bigger drivers. Think of it in term of light. Smaller drivers with diffuse the light over a larger area, but bigger drivers will concentrate the higher frequencies into a narrower "beam" of sound... meaning that you will lose the higher frequencies faster when you are not looking at the driver directly.
I actually have a Tang Bang 4" driver in my TABAQs. They dig a little deeper than their 3" version and I get good bass down to 45Hz, and still some with room gain down to 35Hz, but on the upper range, they will die down after 15kHz... which is fine for me as my ears don't hear past that.
I mentioned them because they are crazy easy to build, will give you a huge grin when you realize how deep they can go....
In the thread, there are version for the 3 or 4" drivers, and another for 5 or 6" drivers as well, called the TABAQ Large.
Here's a review of the commercial 3" version of the TABAQs:
YouTube
And since we are showboating, here are mine:
Jeff
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Mark Audio Alpair 10.x or Pluvia 11 drivers in Pensil, FH-XL, or MLTL cabinets (multiple MLTL designs exist: Jim Griffin, Bob Brines, or Large Tabaq) can be an option. Drivers would be pricier vs what you initially had in mind. I have heard the Alpairs, but no experience with the Pluvia 11. Btw the Alpair 10P top might sound a bit soft to some, whereas the Alpair 10.3 metal is well extended in the treble range.
What brands do you have locally available?
Edit: Noticed that you have Faital available from a local agent. There are good testimonials for certain models and they are also quite efficient. Local availability is a big plus. You save on shipping costs, also do away with other uncertainties.
The TABAQ design that Perceval mentions is a popular one with many satisfied builders. And isn't Perceval's stone-clad pair gorgeous?
What brands do you have locally available?
Edit: Noticed that you have Faital available from a local agent. There are good testimonials for certain models and they are also quite efficient. Local availability is a big plus. You save on shipping costs, also do away with other uncertainties.
The TABAQ design that Perceval mentions is a popular one with many satisfied builders. And isn't Perceval's stone-clad pair gorgeous?
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Thank you for the ideas Zman01.
As far as I know, only Faital and Visaton are available locally. I have just found out about Faital today and I'm heavily leaning towards using that now. And the prices are really low too.
My quest now will turn towards what will be the best cabinet design for 3" or 4" Faitals.. Unless, of course, if someone convinces me that I'm on the wrong track.
Let the ideas keep coming, please.
As far as I know, only Faital and Visaton are available locally. I have just found out about Faital today and I'm heavily leaning towards using that now. And the prices are really low too.
My quest now will turn towards what will be the best cabinet design for 3" or 4" Faitals.. Unless, of course, if someone convinces me that I'm on the wrong track.
Let the ideas keep coming, please.
The TABAQ design that Perceval mentions is a popular one with many satisfied builders. And isn't Perceval's stone-clad pair gorgeous?
Thank you very much.
The FH3 is indeed near the top of the many choices for the P7. And its veratility means that drivers can be upgraded/changed at a later date (even simple supraBaffle recommended for that)
dave
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