Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Full Range Build, 12" driver...
Full Range Build, 12" driver...
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd July 2017, 02:19 PM   #1
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
Default Full Range Build, 12" driver...

Right. Well after a lot of reading here and elsewhere, i do believe that I'm now a full range convert - at least in theory anyway. I'd like to build a pair of full range speaker enclosures to test this theory out!
....
So which enclosure design? Well, i will be retiring an old pair of Fisher 3 ways with 12 in woofers, so to me it only makes sense to go for a 12 in full range design. I have 500 usd budgeted for the pair, which seems to put me into the lower end of things depending on the amt pf wood needed.
Which driver? The Eminence 12 lta seems to be quite popular .. or possibly the newer celestion K12H-200TC or that Fane 12" full range. So I need an enclosure design that works well with one of these 12" speakers. Ah yes, and i understand i will need a super tweeter to fill in the very top end of the spectrum.

Designs of interest:
Bigger badder BIB
BBBIB Bigger Badder BIB Speaker
Hammer Dynamics super 12
Emken
Afterburner
Karlsonator 12

I want something thats at least somewhat hifi, though given my current ds-826s, pretty much anything shoulf be an improvement. They will be used for music of all kinds, as well as movies, so they need to do a lot, and play loud but clean. Ideally with bass extension way down low (hence the bbbib as the current favorite). Ideally no need for a subwoofer - for music at least - would be great.

I will driving the pair with a Yamaha receiver with 80wpc, so i don't necessarily need a speaker so efficient, but nothing wrong with efficiency either. Unless a different full range driver would sound better?

I have a table saw, circ saw, jig saw, etc, but I'm more of a novice when it comes to woodworking so simpler enclosures will probably come out better.

Any opinions on drivers/ enclosure designs are welcome! I've not had the opportunity to listen to any of these unfortunately, so any first hand experience would help.

Edit: Room is approx 25 ft wide x 12ft deep with 8ft ceiling, but there are doorways in both front corners, so speakers are inboard of doorways (so no corner loading currently - though a move is in the near future so this will change).

Last edited by sbcrx007; 23rd July 2017 at 01:09 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 02:24 PM   #2
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
Hi, firstly, are you really committed to 12" speakers? They can beam as frequency increases. You mention adding a tweeter, have you thought of the opposite, that is smaller fullrange with added woofer instead?
__________________
Woofer Assisted Wideband is the New Testament renounce the anachronistic acronym FAST
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 02:44 PM   #3
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
Quote:
firstly, are you really committed to 12" speakers?
Committed to the big full sound that the 12s (or larger) would provide might be a better way of putting it...
For rock, they need to, well, rock. For classical, they beed to be full and authentic. For jazz, similar. If anything i guess i like a "live" sound, but maybe with a little extra low bass, the feel it in your chest kind.

I had not thought about a fullrange with helper woofer... hmm. Most of my reading was pages and pages of BIB designs..
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 03:01 PM   #4
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
Very popular with fullrange fans is a "FAST" set up with mid size fullrange and woofer/subwoofer crossed-over quite low, around 100-150Hz, it can provide the best of both worlds
__________________
Woofer Assisted Wideband is the New Testament renounce the anachronistic acronym FAST
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 04:11 PM   #5
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
So its crossed low enough to not kill the magic of the fullrange.. interesting. I'll do some reading on the FAST concept.

For something like that bigger badder BIB, my understanding is that the tapped horn rear portion of the drivers output provides all the low frequency stuff, so a helper woofer isn't necessarily required... Nice and simple at least.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 04:20 PM   #6
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
picowallspeaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
I'm now a full range convert - at least in theory anyway
Quote:
my understanding is that the tapped horn rear portion of the drivers output provides all the low frequency stuff, so a helper woofer isn't necessarily required...
No intermodulation ?
Pistonic behaviour and directivity ?
Delay from the mouth of the horn ?
__________________
Everything under and above heaven is in utter chaos
mare monstrum
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 05:13 PM   #7
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
Hello again Pico, well yes i suppose there would be some intermodulation issues, though those that built some of the designs with the 12lta never mentioned it as a problem. Supposedly the imaging is good, and issues with delay/directivity of the horn is minimal since we're talking about lower frequencies. I'm sure there are negatives with this type of design as with any design, it becomes a series of compromises.

Admittedly, I like the concept and want to try it out. I could just build a set of 2 or 3 ways instead (w/12 or 15" woofer) but i wondered whats lost between drivers in the crossovers. I'm also planning a subwoofer build to augment the frequencies 17-60 hz for movies, but would rather leave it off for most music listening.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 05:51 PM   #8
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
Ah, the Fane driver is the SOVEREIGN 12-250TC.. which purports to go to 17k hz with wizzer cone...?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 06:04 PM   #9
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
diyAudio Member
 
picowallspeaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Uh, Fisher ! Yes, I remember...
Well, the fact that appears strange to me is the importance given to the woofer.
In a three way design, the mid and tweeter have the same importance.
The crossover too. How can anyone just can design something based on one thing ? Specially if that thing is going to reproduce music.
The woofer, the midrange, the tweeter, they are going to be put in a room.
How is "the set-up" ?
Quote:
(w/12 or 15" woofer)
Please don't ! They are going to be put in a room, I mean, a real room, not a hall
6-7" is the maximum. 3-4" for the midrange unit, 3/4-1" tweeter.
__________________
Everything under and above heaven is in utter chaos
mare monstrum
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd July 2017, 07:30 PM   #10
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ohio, USA
Yep, those ratty old fishers... Though being nearly free years and years ago, their sound quality / price is impressive!

Maybe i'm not being entirely clear, apologies. Not that the woofer is more important than mid/tweet, just that the low frequency response in most modern "miniature" speakers is lacking.
As for going smaller, maybe I'm wrong, but I've never been impressed by the bass response of 6" and smaller drivers. Superior mids and highs from the same cone? Perhaps so!
And of course the crossover can be a simple affair or quite complex in a 2 or 3 way system.

For a full range speaker though, everything is based on the single full range cone.

Yes in a room not a large hall. I'm aware that the bbbib design might be a bit much speaker for such a room.. though the living room will likely be bigger here shortly, pending a move.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Full Range Build, 12" driver...Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New 12" Full-Range: Fane 12-250TC BHTX Full Range 422 5th June 2018 10:47 PM
Anyone with listening experience on EMS LB 12 EX 12" full range field coil driver tgroendahl Full Range 27 28th September 2015 01:24 PM
full range speaker with 12" twin cone driver ampetrosillo Full Range 10 4th August 2014 11:22 AM
2 Norelco/Philips Full Range 12" Driver Speakers 9762M FOR SALE screamer025 Swap Meet 0 24th June 2009 10:50 PM
RE: Rare full range driver DUODE 12" movingcoilguy Full Range 8 3rd September 2007 10:51 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:39 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki