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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:42 PM   #11
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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I'm pretty certain pico is not a fullrange fan, so my guess is he's going to try to make you see the error of your ways...
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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:45 PM   #12
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
12LTA could use a double magnet - -or at least a standard Eminence 56oz slug - a Klippel BL curve would be interesting. I think it has 0.08" physical voice coil overhang. Although it plays clean, and reasonably loud, I don't think it has the "snap" of a good 12 with say 80oz magnet and similar moving mass. I get the feeling its compressing on large signal transients.

12LTA does pretty well in the Karlsonator 12 Putting in in K15 would probably extract a bit more "hit" and probably could be put in a traditional style K-coupler somewhat less in size than K15.

Fane's 12 has an awfully high qts - it is tough and extended in highs (dead-on-axis) - had one in the Karlsonator 12 and it went pretty deep - but didn't graph it to see how much peaking there may have been.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:47 PM   #13
Richard Ellis is offline Richard Ellis  Argentina
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I would do the Eminence 12LTA twelve-incher, a truly inexpensive full-ranger, a way straightforward "classic" bass-reflex enclosure...then refer to a drawn out thread of an individual here who had some testing gear to "get it right", or as best possible. This individual fortunately didn't fall for the "it sounds right", or the "sounds muddy", the subjective qualities. As Neil deGrasse put it "humans are poor data taking devices...that's why we have science...machines...they don't care which side of the bed they woke up on...what their spouses said,...if the had their morning caffeine...they will always get the data right".
I'd apply all this individuals experience, data acquisition...trying to "get it right"...with this one driver.


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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:55 PM   #14
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
here's Eminence's recommendation for a 12LTA vented box

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_12LTA_cab.pdf
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Old 22nd July 2017, 07:57 PM   #15
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
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I saw the relatively small magnet on the 12ltA, but the Celestion was a bit bigger at least, 60 oz i believe, vs 48oz for the lta.

Freddi, you seem to be the karlsonator man...
With all the highs coming from the front of the cone, do you need to put them up on stands? Or does the angle the driver is mounted at account for this, given a reasonable listening distance? The "veil" panels on the front don't block part of the highs? It's an interesting design that i have not delved deeply into yet... sort of fell into about a million pages of BIB reading!

Thanks Rick, thats sage advice. I don't mind blazing a trail if i have to, but if someone else already went thru the motions it would be great to check out what the conclusions were. Do you recall which member had the thread or what the title was?
That hammer dynamics super 12 was just a vented reflex, and appeared to have some thought/ experimentation put into it.

Last edited by sbcrx007; 22nd July 2017 at 08:02 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 08:05 PM   #16
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Full Range Build, 12" driver...
the angle of a Karlson and beaming of typical fullrange and coaxial pretty much allows Karlson - Karlsonator to sit on the floor. Karlson's K12 ( fall 1954 to Karlson's death in 1973) had a 3 inch stand - with some small K-coupler, that provides a better balance as things could get "chesty" sounding with some small Karlson (like my "SK8" and Tangband W8-1772) directly on the floor. Raising that cabinet about 5 inches allowed harp and soprano voice to play well.

12LTA will definitely need a "helper" tweeter - even for 78 era recordings (maybe not the early acoustics)

for what little its worth Karlsonator 12 with Beta 12LTA - YouTube

Last edited by freddi; 22nd July 2017 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 22nd July 2017, 08:07 PM   #17
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Probably is my room that adds too much room gain but yesterday I was to finish an old job, a so-called boombox with 2 fullrange speakers and a subwoofer. This particular one, as others, works with pee-wee TDA 2822 and the like...something like 1+1 W delivered to the FR and 3 W to the sub unit
Yesterday the transformer got quite hot
I was focusing on the subwoofer, as I eventually added a passive radiator on the back- The sub uses a 4"
I did use also a sony subwoofer, a 6", which is overly powerful for this project.
So the 4" has good bass ( previously it was intended for use with open back, same as OB ) and with PR now it's better...go figure what caused the addition of a second PR to the previous PR, sort of push-pull but better to say added mass Sooo, it depends on the project
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Old 22nd July 2017, 08:11 PM   #18
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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In the end, the project is what's in your ( wandering) mind and ( if you catch it)
how to make it happen
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Old 22nd July 2017, 08:25 PM   #19
Richard Ellis is offline Richard Ellis  Argentina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sbcrx007 View Post
I saw the relatively small magnet on the 12ltA, but the Celestion was a bit bigger at least, 60 oz i believe, vs 48oz for the lta.

Freddi, you seem to be the karlsonator man...
With all the highs coming from the front of the cone, do you need to put them up on stands? Or does the angle the driver is mounted at account for this, given a reasonable listening distance? The "veil" panels on the front don't block part of the highs? It's an interesting design that i have not delved deeply into yet... sort of fell into about a million pages of BIB reading!

Thanks Rick, thats sage advice. I don't mind blazing a trail if i have to, but if someone else already went thru the motions it would be great to check out what the conclusions were. Do you recall which member had the thread or what the title was?
That hammer dynamics super 12 was just a vented reflex, and appeared to have some thought/ experimentation put into it.

" beta 12LTA in a 3cf box-port size " the exact wording..he deals with adding material onto the driver basket itself, differing types to dampen internal reflections, & various works with removing the dustcap, replacing it with a "spiked" structure, or?, & various measurements along the way, a good long read.


------------------------------------------------------------------Rick.......
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Old 22nd July 2017, 09:00 PM   #20
sbcrx007 is offline sbcrx007  United States
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Rick - ah! I did read that one!
Lots of good info for the 12lta, i have it bookmarked and was planning on trying some similar things if i used the 12lta
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