Okie dokie, here we go. So my first project was recently completed. Well sort of I haven't applied a veneer or finish yet but that will wait until I am satisfied with the setup. Any ways my first project was a pair of uFonkens and really they truly do sound excellent even without a baffle step correction (which I can feel the need for) and even without bass. That last one is a serious problem though! I need a touch more bass. I have a tendency to ramble on these forums so I'll list out my questions and gladly converse with you in the comments.
Before my questions first my plan:
two silver flute 5.5" drivers in individual cabinets. Side mounted drivers rear mounted ports. Passive XO at 2kHz using 2nd order low pass filter. No XO on the uFonkens.
1st question: Does that seem reasonable? Have I missed something in my research and made a terrible decision?
2nd question: Would I be better off building a singular enclosure to combine the FF85wk and Silver Flute or is this modular design just fine?
3rd question: 10USD for an inductor!?!? Ok that's just me whining...
4th question: For now I have a cheap class D amp with only a right and left output. Will I be ok just jamming leads into the output for both the uFonken and the sub box? I'm thinking probably but looking for reassurance.
5th and final question... for now: Will I need to balance volume from the subs/FAs? I think probably. Is that usually accomplished with a resistor in series before or after the XO?
Whew thanks for sticking through all that. Thanks even more if you provide insightful feedback. It may seem lazy to just ask all these questions but in doing research this information seems fairly scattered and often conflicting or out of date!
Before my questions first my plan:
two silver flute 5.5" drivers in individual cabinets. Side mounted drivers rear mounted ports. Passive XO at 2kHz using 2nd order low pass filter. No XO on the uFonkens.
1st question: Does that seem reasonable? Have I missed something in my research and made a terrible decision?
2nd question: Would I be better off building a singular enclosure to combine the FF85wk and Silver Flute or is this modular design just fine?
3rd question: 10USD for an inductor!?!? Ok that's just me whining...
4th question: For now I have a cheap class D amp with only a right and left output. Will I be ok just jamming leads into the output for both the uFonken and the sub box? I'm thinking probably but looking for reassurance.
5th and final question... for now: Will I need to balance volume from the subs/FAs? I think probably. Is that usually accomplished with a resistor in series before or after the XO?
Whew thanks for sticking through all that. Thanks even more if you provide insightful feedback. It may seem lazy to just ask all these questions but in doing research this information seems fairly scattered and often conflicting or out of date!
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Just in that conversation can be had and pros and cons can be discussed between people of varying opinions. In perusing this forum I have found it not uncommon for people to ask questions specific to their own project and receive helpful, positive feedback.
Also when doing something new it is nice to have a place to speculate and discuss other various options.
Was I wrong to expect a positive environment or should I expect much more passive aggressiveness in the future? If my post is inappropriate for the community then please let a mod delete it.
It would probably be best to expect the unexpected
and not take anything too personally It would probably be best to expect the unexpected
Yes, sorry, shouldn't have fought fire with fire. No personal offense taken. I suppose worst case if no advice is given I will simply pursue my current plan and at best have a decent speaker system or at worst I'll learn something.
That's ok, I certainly didn't mean to offend you, it was just a joke. But, the advice stands, some people can be pretty tough here and it really does pay not to take it too seriously.
Regards your post, I am interested, FAST set up seems to be getting more popular, I have one myself but open baffle too
Regards your post, I am interested, FAST set up seems to be getting more popular, I have one myself but open baffle too
Space and cost. Mostly space. I mean, if space weren't a concern then the uFonkens were a bad choice. I hoped I could get away without a sub. Wrong, so now I'm going this route to bring performance up to what I would like. Then I may consider reevaluating my requirements and attempt a different project to better suit my needs while shifting this system to somewhere else.
All that said it seems like the 5.5s should be able to get pretty low. Will it be low enough? Dunno. Guess I will find out.
In Tysen V2 we use 2 Silver Flute W14 + FF85wk in an integrated enclosure, but seperate boxes would be fine.
With a single W14 you might have some issues with getting the level high enuff.
With no XO on the uFonken, 2 kHz is way too high for the W14. This is an ideal situation for using a plate amp(s) for the woofers.
We have designed, but not tested a passive XO for Tysen V2. XO is at about 250 Hz.
dave
Good info. Thank you!
I did plan on using two. Maybe unnecessarily. Is it not typical to do a sub for the right and left channel?
Something I had not considered. Until just now I did not know that plate amplifiers only handled low frequencies. I wish I had known that earlier! I suppose this would solve my crossover problem as well as level matching. Seems like a large added cost though.
I think I will attempt the passive XO unless you think that level matching will be a nightmare... Ok I went and read about it briefly before posting. While I might be confused what I think we are worried about in this regard is SPL or sensitivity. Seems these drivers sensitivities are quite similar? Is this a non issue?
I looked up your Tysen design. I suppose it is probably one of your posts I read suggesting the Silver Flute be paired with the ff85wk. I'm grateful for guys like you paving the path for the rest of us.
I did plan on using two. Maybe unnecessarily. Is it not typical to do a sub for the right and left channel?
Something I had not considered. Until just now I did not know that plate amplifiers only handled low frequencies. I wish I had known that earlier! I suppose this would solve my crossover problem as well as level matching. Seems like a large added cost though.
I think I will attempt the passive XO unless you think that level matching will be a nightmare... Ok I went and read about it briefly before posting. While I might be confused what I think we are worried about in this regard is SPL or sensitivity. Seems these drivers sensitivities are quite similar? Is this a non issue?
I looked up your Tysen design. I suppose it is probably one of your posts I read suggesting the Silver Flute be paired with the ff85wk. I'm grateful for guys like you paving the path for the rest of us.
Ah I see nope. Just one per box was my intention. I'm beginning to feel I've made a wrong turn a couple of intersections back and should about face. Oh well we are on this road now and might as well see it to the end.
I think you're headed in the right direction. I've been working on something similar. I plan to go with a plate amp for my woofers. No need to worry about level matching this way; you are basically bi-amping. I would still consider a high-pass on the full-range driver. Relieving it of "bass duty" might help it shine more in other areas.
I have a handful of full-range drivers and a few woofers. I'm trying to decide which to use and how to configure.
Thanks for your post.
Mike
I have a handful of full-range drivers and a few woofers. I'm trying to decide which to use and how to configure.
Thanks for your post.
Mike
I have read the history of Dave's posts on the Tysen thread. The Tysen V2 is definitely what I am trying to accomplish but far too large for me. I think that I am going to give the passive XO a whirl. Worst case I will invest in plate amps and move on from my foolishness.
Dave, in drawing my box I was shooting for around 11 liters. Maybe this is a foolish question but should my target volume change with the addition of a driver? I will research box design in more depth before committing to an end design.
Thanks, Mike, I get the feeling that I am moving in the correct direction as well. My concern is that I am moving in the right direction in the same way the golf ball is after my stroke. That is to say It will take many more strokes to arrive somewhat near the desired destination.
Dave, in drawing my box I was shooting for around 11 liters. Maybe this is a foolish question but should my target volume change with the addition of a driver? I will research box design in more depth before committing to an end design.
Thanks, Mike, I get the feeling that I am moving in the correct direction as well. My concern is that I am moving in the right direction in the same way the golf ball is after my stroke. That is to say It will take many more strokes to arrive somewhat near the desired destination.
That might be, but I'm sure these guys who have the knowledge many of us only dream of started out the same way. Like Edison said though, you won't have any failures, maybe you'll just learn what you don't like.
Anyway, there is a wealth of knowledge on this forum with great folks who readily share. You could very well end up with something you like quite a bit. I have built a number of designs from these gentlemen and have been very pleased with almost all of them. If I don't like a particular design, I put the driver aside and move on to something else. I take my time and kick around a lot of ideas and then pick one and go with it. More times than not, I'm happy with what I've built.
Now I just need to figure out what to do with 10, 15, 20... pairs of speakers in various rooms of my house...
Mike
I thought you meant 2 woofers per side too. You mentioned that you were thinking of building a larger system in the future, with that in mind I would suggest you go active with this one with a view to flexibility and performance now and the future design.
Using an active crossover with separate amplification allows you to adjust the crossover frequency (I would strongly advise taking low frequency duties away from the uFonken when using the woofers), and the levels.
Using an active crossover with separate amplification allows you to adjust the crossover frequency (I would strongly advise taking low frequency duties away from the uFonken when using the woofers), and the levels.
There is probably a better way but....
Small can be done with ND105-8s. WinISD gets 42+Hz in 14+L.
If you want small but lower Hz, the small Tang Band subwoofers will do it.... at the expense of feeding them more power. (W5-1138SMF, W6-1139SIF).
Ideally, a larger pair of woofers and larger cabinets would be used. Ha, but then the FF85s would be sealed too.
J.
OK so I think I have decided that I am going to try to take all of the advice I can here.
-2 silver flutes per side.
-Low frequency XO on both the woofers and the FAs. If I do this should I lift the XO point a bit so that there is better overlap or is ~250Hz probably good still? This is something I can play with on my own.
-I still am not decided on going with plate amps. Is it a reasonable assumption that I could just put the woofers on a separate amp with a passive crossover or is it just a better idea to do the plate amps and get it over with? How much more power would I need for the woofers? I don't think that I understand sound level sensitivity correctly. For reference I have a cheap 30w/channel amp (that is not getting remotely close to 30W/channel) at between 40% and 60% for listening with the uFonken. This is quite a nice level range for me. I clearly don't know how to tell how much more power a more bass capable system would require. Something to research.
-I am, for now, going to keep these as separate enclosures. I have almost a full sheet of cheap 3ply BB on hand that I will make the woofer enclosures out of on an experimental basis. This way if I decide to move on up to plate amps I wont feel bad hacking on a completed box to fit them. Once I am happy I may destroy everything and build a final set as an integrated enclosure. Similar to the Tyson V2 but hopefully more compact and without the angle.
Part of my struggle is ignorance and the other part is not knowing what I actually need. The best system I could build would probably be wasted on me, however, the way vocals shine with these fostex drivers is not lost on me and the lack of bass is also not lost on me. Hence the continuation of this project. Thanks all for your input and for future help as well!
-2 silver flutes per side.
-Low frequency XO on both the woofers and the FAs. If I do this should I lift the XO point a bit so that there is better overlap or is ~250Hz probably good still? This is something I can play with on my own.
-I still am not decided on going with plate amps. Is it a reasonable assumption that I could just put the woofers on a separate amp with a passive crossover or is it just a better idea to do the plate amps and get it over with? How much more power would I need for the woofers? I don't think that I understand sound level sensitivity correctly. For reference I have a cheap 30w/channel amp (that is not getting remotely close to 30W/channel) at between 40% and 60% for listening with the uFonken. This is quite a nice level range for me. I clearly don't know how to tell how much more power a more bass capable system would require. Something to research.
-I am, for now, going to keep these as separate enclosures. I have almost a full sheet of cheap 3ply BB on hand that I will make the woofer enclosures out of on an experimental basis. This way if I decide to move on up to plate amps I wont feel bad hacking on a completed box to fit them. Once I am happy I may destroy everything and build a final set as an integrated enclosure. Similar to the Tyson V2 but hopefully more compact and without the angle.
Part of my struggle is ignorance and the other part is not knowing what I actually need. The best system I could build would probably be wasted on me, however, the way vocals shine with these fostex drivers is not lost on me and the lack of bass is also not lost on me. Hence the continuation of this project. Thanks all for your input and for future help as well!
If you use separate amps for the woofers then you could use a line level passive crossover which goes before the amps, very simple and easy to play around with, have a look at this for starters TLS.org | Passive Line-Level Crossover
OK! I like this and I think this is what I'm going to do.
Are there any signal integrity consequences of this? Seems like the only thing is that the low pass is going to reduce signal amplitude a bit (like 10% if you choose a 5k r1 with 50k input impedance). This should just equate to a bit more of a turn on the power amp knob I suppose requiring a bit more amp headroom. Obviously a change in amp will likely cause a change in filter circuit. Cool any other consideration I have likely missed in my reading?
Thank you for the suggestion!
Are there any signal integrity consequences of this? Seems like the only thing is that the low pass is going to reduce signal amplitude a bit (like 10% if you choose a 5k r1 with 50k input impedance). This should just equate to a bit more of a turn on the power amp knob I suppose requiring a bit more amp headroom. Obviously a change in amp will likely cause a change in filter circuit. Cool any other consideration I have likely missed in my reading?
Thank you for the suggestion!
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