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Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet
Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet
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Old 12th February 2017, 04:06 PM   #41
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid View Post
I found two tracks to be very useful in testing the low frequency capabilities.

One is "Hold Back the River" by James Bay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqiH0ZSkM9I

I really like this song, the acoustic space is quite appealing and this sounds amazing with LX521. The double bass has some really difficult transients, this is the track I had the most trouble with clipping the DSP.

The other is "Free" by Rudimental feat Emeli Sande.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDPW_g2AhAU

This track has a significant amount of very low frequency energy in a synthetic base line. It really makes the dipole woofers move!

This is the spectrum from Audacity

Attachment 598756

Wesayso if you are reading this have you tried either of these two tracks on your arrays? If you have I would be interested to know how they handled them.
Found the time to listen. Love the James Bay track. Going to listen again. Very nice imaging and clear sound.

The other did less for me, though it is a workout for the bottom end it isn't reeling me in. A Perfect Circle with Lullaby is a bigger workout.
This one reminds me of the synthetic wobbling low lines in some Lorde tracks. I like those better.

I've send you a pair back, let me know what you think.

I use JRiver's analysing on all tracks, and use volume levelling to keep me from having low frequency accidents . I try and balance to use as much room as I can without running into digital clipping. Keeping just a little headroom at all times. Volume control is capped to not be able to (over)boost volume with regards to the amount of EQ I use.
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Last edited by wesayso; 12th February 2017 at 04:18 PM.
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Old 13th February 2017, 02:44 PM   #42
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Found the time to listen. Love the James Bay track. Going to listen again. Very nice imaging and clear sound.

The other did less for me, though it is a workout for the bottom end it isn't reeling me in. A Perfect Circle with Lullaby is a bigger workout.
This one reminds me of the synthetic wobbling low lines in some Lorde tracks. I like those better.

I've send you a pair back, let me know what you think.

I use JRiver's analysing on all tracks, and use volume levelling to keep me from having low frequency accidents . I try and balance to use as much room as I can without running into digital clipping. Keeping just a little headroom at all times. Volume control is capped to not be able to (over)boost volume with regards to the amount of EQ I use.
Glad you had time to have a listen, I actually like the Rudimental track but I primarily use it as a low end test. The dipoles probably suffer more as they have no cabinet rolloff and the boost goes all the way down.

I really like Get Lucky by Daft Punk especially Nile Rogers guitar parts. The remix and the album track have the same bass line which gets the woofers moving too.

I have listened to Lullaby on youtube but I don't hear a bass line at all so maybe that version is no good or it's so low my laptop speakers ignore it! Maybe you could point me in the right direction to a version that has it.

The James bay track and The Chain by Fleetwood Mac are two tracks that just sound magic on the LX521.

Getting Jriver setup on my media computer is on my list of things to do but it always seems to get bumped. The volume levelling is something that I think is very worthwhile. Once the arrays are closer to completion I will need to just get on with it.
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Old 13th February 2017, 02:50 PM   #43
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Originally Posted by BYRTT View Post
Hi fluid that is very interesting hear a drummers views and some good points there regarding hi-hat, have a thought we never going to hear symbols be 100% realistic because of real speakers HF roll of makes squarer waves transients fade out above 4-6kHz area and diamond tweeters won't move much there in it will need far bigger steps to improve square waves up to say 20kHz area. My DSP run at 192kHz so can load a Rephase filter than turn phase up there and while i think it helps a bit isolated focus on symbols realism it ruins overall rhythm musicality for recording, compared to fully mic'ed live concert reproduce drums at home is good enough it gets harder to reproduce the non mic'ed drums. Heard new high resolution remastering "Led Zeppelin III" "Since I've been loving you" on weasayso's system, and think of that as being better one when focus on drum/symbols department.
Cymbals are another area where heavy processing tends to be used, most have the low end completely cut and then boosted around 10K. Real cymbals are a lot more raw and less shimmery. The volume of a band tends to drown it out though.

Getting a good phase response is definitely on the list of things to achieve with the processing of the arrays to see if I can appreciate the difference!
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Old 23rd February 2017, 10:19 AM   #44
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Almost no progress made here other than having to move all the parts from one room to another for construction to continue at some point.

Screws have arrived today, so I will be able to mount the drivers when I have the cabinets finished!
Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet-img_0276-jpg
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Old 26th February 2017, 02:22 PM   #45
koldby is offline koldby  Denmark
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Anybody interested in a group buy of the ultimate Vifa/Peerless/Thympany driver TG9FD10-08 .

Price around $6 but there has to be many interested as minimum number of drivers for that price is >2000 pcs.
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Old 26th February 2017, 05:06 PM   #46
gkh is offline gkh  Austria
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Originally Posted by koldby View Post
Anybody interested in a group buy of the ultimate Vifa/Peerless/Thympany driver TG9FD10-08 .

Price around $6 but there has to be many interested as minimum number of drivers for that price is >2000 pcs.
Oh sure!
Count me in for 120

Regds
Gerald
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Old 27th February 2017, 09:42 AM   #47
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Originally Posted by koldby View Post
Anybody interested in a group buy of the ultimate Vifa/Peerless/Thympany driver TG9FD10-08 .

Price around $6 but there has to be many interested as minimum number of drivers for that price is >2000 pcs.
Sorry not for me, I need to use the ones I have first, I imagine the shipping would be expensive anyway as it was when I bought the TC9's.

Thanks anyway
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Old 14th March 2017, 07:07 AM   #48
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Due to a chronic lack of sleep and 40+ degree Celsius temperatures progress has been slower than normal but there has been some.

The rubber has a slight curl due to being rolled up for a number of years, unrolling and applying weight has made it better but there is still too much for it to just be glued down.

Staples seem to hold it quite nicely and should stop the curl from pulling the glue away over time.

IMG_2329.jpg

I made a few test runs to find the best way to mount the threaded nuts in the MDF as these will be holding the whole thing up so I don't want them stripping.

The two on the right I used an 8mm pilot hole and countersunk the edge as the wings on the nut were lifting the MDF at the surface.

The one on the left has an 8mm pilot hole with a 9mm one for the first few mm. This gives enough clearance for the body of the nut without lifting the top layers.

I have used superglue to harden the threads after the nut has cut them. This has worked better than I expected and the nuts go back in very tight and feel a lot more secure. You can see the one on the left is still wet and the two on the right have a white look to them where the thread has recut.

IMG_2330.jpg

I have got my Dowelmax out to cut dowel holes to assist with alignment and gluing. It is setup for 5/8" material so as long as I am careful about matching the faces together the slight difference doesn't matter.

IMG_2331.jpg

I dropped it and was worried that it wasn't perfectly true anymore. Glad to say that it is still accurate. In this picture the block was flipped end to end and there are two marks from a transfer punch in between the pencil marks, pretty hard to pick them apart.

IMG_2333.jpg

The CNC cut parts are very accurate and completely square which is important for the jig to work at it's best.

IMG_2334.jpg

My test pieces have gone together quite well but there is a slight gap which gets longer over the piece.

IMG_2335.jpg

IMG_2336.jpg

These test pieces are not accurately cut enough to work without this error creeping in.

Square at the corner but not all the way along.

IMG_2338.jpg

IMG_2337.jpg
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Old 14th March 2017, 10:11 AM   #49
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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I found an interesting article from Stereophile discussing measurements and methods to increase the reflection free period available making the measurement more room independent and to a lower frequency.

Time Dilation, Part 2 Page 3 | Stereophile.com

The technique filters the impulse before any gating which reduces it's length and allows a longer gate to be set, then an inverse filter after the gate is used to restore the frequency response.

The method used in the Dolby Labs paper seems to be something that could be achieved in REW with existing measurements. The KEF version would need to be in the measurement chain and seems less useful in practice.

The graphs seem to show that it can be quite effective. I think it is something that I will try when I get to measuring.

Maybe someone else has already tried it, or could try it on an existing measurement to see what happens?
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Old 14th March 2017, 05:50 PM   #50
oneplustwo is offline oneplustwo  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluid View Post
The rubber has a slight curl due to being rolled up for a number of years, unrolling and applying weight has made it better but there is still too much for it to just be glued down.

Staples seem to hold it quite nicely and should stop the curl from pulling the glue away over time.
What kind of glue are you using? Will it really not hold if you allow the glue to cure? Must be a really mean curl! I can't remember... are you using rubber and another damping layer too? In considering my laminate of MVL and the foil lined dynamat style material, perhaps I'll try stapling the MVL to the dynamat and then using the pre-applied adhesive of the foil backed mat to stick to the baffle. Or just find a more aggressive glue!
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