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Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet
Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet
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Old 25th October 2019, 02:11 PM   #1021
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc535 View Post
I like your several shades of grey decorating scheme.
Thanks, me too, it was kind of forced on me by the fabric shop not having enough of one colour to do everything the same but I quite like it. When the walls are painted and the awful green carpet replaced it will look much better again
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Originally Posted by nc535 View Post
like those panels are deep enough to stand up on their own, which is convenient.
The nice thing about line arrays is the only treatment you need is vertical panels. No hanging things from the ceiling or trying to pad the floor.

The last couple of panels I built were made from 1"x8" fingerjoint pine boards from Home Depot, with 6" thick x 23" paper backed fiberglass stapled inside the frame to close the back with paper. Really inexpensive and quick construction.
They free stand quite nicely and are better balanced than I thought they would be. I went with the cheapest being mdf, three sheets for all the panels cost me less than one would have been if I used pine. The fabric was the most expensive part!
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Old 26th October 2019, 11:23 AM   #1022
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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It looks great and should give you a more manageable result to tune.
Something that will be more consistent throughout the listening location or even better, the room itself.

Can't wait to see some measurements...
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Old 28th October 2019, 09:44 AM   #1023
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Originally Posted by wesayso View Post

Can't wait to see some measurements...
New measurements taken including a Jriver loopback test of the system function I have been listening to. Not much time as yet to look and compare, main dips are still there but overall looks better. Will post when I have time to look a bit deeper
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Old 28th October 2019, 12:19 PM   #1024
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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Here's a couple of comparison graphs showing the differences between treated and untreated, frequency graphs smoothed at 1/6 oct to try and show the overall trend. Less bump and dip easier to correct below 1K, above shows more dips probably because they aren't being filled in by reflections.

Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet-treated-untreated-jpg

Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet-treated-untreated-2-jpg

Not easy to read this but you can see the red is lower in level and less restless overall

Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet-etc-comparison-jpg
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Treated v Untreated.jpg (100.1 KB, 197 views)
File Type: jpg Treated v Untreated 2.jpg (100.2 KB, 196 views)
File Type: jpg ETC Comparison.jpg (148.6 KB, 190 views)
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Old 28th October 2019, 12:43 PM   #1025
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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What do you hear, as a difference between the two in listening?

It is obvious there is a definitive improvement in direct vs indirect sound.
Does it get "more quiet" in comparison? Less wild? I think this gives you an excellent base to improve upon with further processing. Most reflections are down below the -20 dB (which was my initial goal) and gives an opportunity to play with ambience addons later on.
First get the balance right between left and right channel. Is this a Stereo or mono channel? If this is mono, a Stereo sweep will improve it even further!
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Old 30th October 2019, 08:35 AM   #1026
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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What do you hear, as a difference between the two in listening?
Hmm, not easy to quantify that, due to the difficulty of moving the panels in and out there was no direct comparison. I notice that some of the things I was trying to fix unsuccessfully with EQ were better with the panels in and no longer annoyed me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Does it get "more quiet" in comparison? Less wild? I think this gives you an excellent base to improve upon with further processing. Most reflections are down below the -20 dB (which was my initial goal) and gives an opportunity to play with ambience addons later on.
First get the balance right between left and right channel. Is this a Stereo or mono channel? If this is mono, a Stereo sweep will improve it even further!
Quiet yes I turned the volume up about 3dB from the level I had chosen before, Less wild, yes more refined. I can tell that something has gone too and I think the ambience speakers are important to try. I have been re reading a few papers and articles where good listening acoustics are discussed. Even though there is no concrete agreement between the different experts, I take away from it that removing early reflections through absorption and adding later ones through electronic or acoustic means is a practical way to get the best of both worlds in a less than ideal space.

Those graphs were mono top one right channel only, bottom left channel only.

I need to do some more work to check the relative left right channel balance in level to see if a small tweek is needed to get them the same.

Ear position measurements didn't really work again on the updated correction filter, I can't find a place where I want to put my head I keep wanting to move it. A four position average gets rid of that, it surprises me more this time as the difference between the two is not much.
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Old 31st October 2019, 11:38 AM   #1027
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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I've been tweaking my customized DRC scheme a bit lately; any chance you wouldn't mind ..... auditioning a filter or two for me?
I have been testing out your new psycho filter to see what it does. I quite like it, very different to what I've been doing before as the windows are very short and using quite different exponents. I like the way it is not filling in the dips, which parameters are responsible for that part of it?

I had trouble on the first run getting the channels even. Round two with better tuned pre EQ is looking better, I haven't listened to this one yet but it looks much better

Full Range TC9 Line Array CNC Cabinet-psychov2-jpg
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File Type: jpg Psychov2.jpg (92.6 KB, 146 views)
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Old 31st October 2019, 12:08 PM   #1028
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Untreated looks better. Sounds? The blue ans green traces, why would anyone want to improve these - looks smashing. My experience of "damping /absorption" is that it sucks the life out of the music. Every time I tried, I lived with for a while but in the end always preferred the none damped. YMMV.

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Old 31st October 2019, 12:47 PM   #1029
fluid is offline fluid  Australia
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To me treated looks better below 600Hz less resonances being exited. The plots are smoothed with a fairly low scale value (used to show the general trends). Sound of a raw array with no EQ is not great, but if subs were being added to those plots they would need much less EQ.

There is something that has been lost from the damping panels which is why I want to try the ambient additions to see if I can get that back but not lose the clarity and less resonant low end that came from the damping.

They sound more like big headphones right now which isn't to everyones liking.

Wesayso has said much the same before and considers the ambient setup important to the overall result. I have tried quite a few different approaches but I always find myself tending to agree with him in the end
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Old 31st October 2019, 12:52 PM   #1030
nc535 is offline nc535
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What will you use for ambient speakers and where placed? Good use for just a few more tc9s, given spl requirements?
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