Religious/aesthetic.
I use big solid brass posts that I can really torque down to get an airtight metal-metal bond. Dead nuts reliable and solid connections. But admittedly I don't swap out speakers very often.
Sorry I made a break in my flow there boys, the whole get the lead out of your system thing (metal) & crossover relocation were one continuous experience I was sharing of. I am happy that some of us make crossovers of highest quality from the get go but maybe some not & relocation will help immensely along with removal of excess metal. I will try not to be so broad in statements or completely precise to every detail so some of us won't feel they're ideals or identities are being attacked. Thanks for the heads up guys 
Sorry Scottmoose, I missed your questions there. Lousy wire would be to me anything of low metal purity content, poor dielectric would be anything more than air? Hahaha, cheep plastic or what have you that stores a charge up for later release, long runs inside of equipment would be take all the parts out of the various boxes & mount them all on a piece of ply floating on a suspension bed of air from the wings of Angles? as short as physically possible between source & signal management pieces & again as short as physically possible between amp"s" & drivers chain of events but not sitting atop vibrating boxes of drivers or the effects of the air movement around them to shake the guts out of it all exciting crystals n' such. Is that a fair explanation without getting crazy wordy or to dream worldly for those who's paradigms I might be messing with
Ah, many apologies, I thought you actually had some criteria.
Even PVC, vile substance though it is, has essentially no losses / storage in or near the audio band (shunt resistive impedances are in the mega-Ohms), so while there are technically superior insulating materials out there, their superiority does not come into play in or near the region of human hearing.
Even PVC, vile substance though it is, has essentially no losses / storage in or near the audio band (shunt resistive impedances are in the mega-Ohms), so while there are technically superior insulating materials out there, their superiority does not come into play in or near the region of human hearing.
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Have you ever tried to experiment within the subject you are quoting on with various wire types & qualities, types of various jackets or no jacket, metal connector metal types & metal qualities or lack of, solder types? Or what about vibration throughout the signal chain, EMI/RFI or speaker damping, time alignment, eq, fuses or bypassing them, quality of parts within the various parts of the signal chain, room acoustics by placement of damping or defusing materials, or different types of music even?.......it seems you are quoting #'s & theory but not sharing of actual experience with the subject? Is it just me or does it seem there are numerous people here who are theorists & not actual doers? I have nothing to prove in order to buildup my ego, I don't claim to know everything or even anything but Brothers & Sisters I have spent waaaay to much time genuinely enjoying the rewards of methodically step by step, one change at a time quite literally seeing the difference in the results of how one small change can effect the sound returning to me out of my speakers with nothing to prove just enjoying to hobby & share of what just happened after such a small change with those around me.
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ABTN - have you not yet grocked to the fact that some of the posters in this forum have multiple decades of playing around with this as a hobby, during which time most will have experimented with at least as many tweaks as you've mentioned? As I said earlier, 50+ yrs affords one opportunity to consume a lot of kool-aid, and with some luck, survive with enough brain cells for rational rather than purely emotional analysis.
Some are further qualified to critique your assertions by formal technical / engineering training, and years of real world experience.
I like the type of cheap connectors and binding posts that have been mentioned above because, well, they're cheap, most are very easy to install/use - and I've yet to have the improvements of boutique connectors demonstrated to my ears, in systems and conditions that I'd normally use.
As debatable as the degree of sonic advantages of hard wiring, outboard crossovers, etc might be - I think it'd be hard to argue that those practices are convenient - and as some of us do like / need to change or move our equipment around from time to time, convenience can be a big deal.
Wire/ signal cable - that's a whole 'nother kettle of snake oil.
Some are further qualified to critique your assertions by formal technical / engineering training, and years of real world experience.
I like the type of cheap connectors and binding posts that have been mentioned above because, well, they're cheap, most are very easy to install/use - and I've yet to have the improvements of boutique connectors demonstrated to my ears, in systems and conditions that I'd normally use.
As debatable as the degree of sonic advantages of hard wiring, outboard crossovers, etc might be - I think it'd be hard to argue that those practices are convenient - and as some of us do like / need to change or move our equipment around from time to time, convenience can be a big deal.
Wire/ signal cable - that's a whole 'nother kettle of snake oil.
If you'd read my posts, you would see that yes: I have. It is significant that most of the items you have just introduced in your last post have little or no connection with the discussion over binding posts & hard-wiring a system. This leads to the inevitable conclusion that they have been brought in purely in an attempt at portraying those who have 'reservations' over your sweeping generalisations as being devoid of experience. Bad luck.
Shall we go through them in order?Re different types of wire: yes. You have yet to define 'qualities', but to date, my own experience in speaker-level wiring has been that, assuming that the wire is not being used to provide EQ, optimal results are obtained in terms of efficiency of signal transfer when voltage drop is minimised (with < 0.1V drop being a reasonable threshold) and inductance is also reduced as far as practical within the context of a specific system. In the abstract solid core is preferable as it has less surface area to potentially start corroding, increasing resistance. In practice, I've not found surface oxidisation to be an issue here in the UK, but it is for some, so worth keeping in mind. If memory serves a long term industrial study found that in a given gauge & geometry, copper flash-plated with silver came out top for transfer efficiency. Ordinary solid core copper came next. YMMV. I've settled on 11ga tin-plated multistranded copper in an ordinary shotgun configuration myself. Slightly higher resistance than pure copper, but it means corrosion is a non-issue and is reasonably flexible -important as I often have prototypes moving through the system and don't wish to waste time wresting bus-bars.
Re wire jackets, yes. I haven't found any audible differences yet between otherwise identical wire, which is not surprising, since there shouldn't be any, even with the dreaded PVC (although given that stuff is ecological poison, I wouldn't shed a tear if it received a global ban tomorrow). For practical reasons, uninsulated wire is not an option for myself, and the potential for corrosion is high for many who live in regions of high humidity. The potential for shorts is also very high.
Re connectors, as was noted above, I prefer Speakon types, or plated copper eye-lugs either compression crimped or wire-wrapped to the ends, screwed down and coated with copper grease. Given that I often have prototypes in the system, I'm usually stuck with copper banana plugs, but that is a matter of practicality rather than preference.
Re solder, I've yet to hear any difference, although for speaker wire at least, as noted I do not like soldered connections.
Re vibration, obviously this needs considering, most significantly for speaker enclosures, but also other areas, depending on the system context.
Re EMI / RFI, again this obviously requires addressing within the context of a system, and the immediate environment; in general signal-level leads are most vulnerable although not exclusively, ergo appropriate shielding or other countermeasures are necessary in such conditions; likewise routing such leads away from potential sources of interference is usually sensible.
Re time alignment, entire books can be written on the subject, and since I have designed several thousand speakers over the years, suffice it to say that I have a degree of familiarity with it. Context dependent; there is no single 'right' / 'wrong' answer without that.
Getting through it. Most tedious. And irrelevant to hard-wiring a system. Makes you wonder why all this little lot was introduced n'cest pas?
Re fuses, depends on what fuses and where. Only a certified window-licker would advocate removing or bypass mains fuses without proper replacement, since they are an essential safety device (mains is 230v, 13amp here in the UK), so clearly you cannot have been referring to those. Some speakers contain fuses in the high pass filter, which may (may) be bypassed to advantage if you are certain that the speaker will never receive sufficient power to fry the VC. As for some of the allegedly 'audio' grade fuses that are around -frankly, I couldn't care tuppence. I have better things to do than while away the hours worrying that my fuses have not been anointed with the finest of silver plating. Life really does get too short. Although I'll mention that one to some musician friends I'm seeing in a few days (only some of the most respected fiddle players in the UK). I already know what their reaction will be. It involves laughing their heads off.
Where are we? Oh yes, fuses. And quality of parts. OK, yes it's a good idea to use good quality parts rather than something that does not do the job it is meant for. You need to define which parts, and what your criteria for 'quality' is though, since it doesn't mean anything until you do. And still doesn't have much relevance to hard-wiring a speaker.
Re room treatment, I was invited to talk at an event this time last week, where we had some rather interesting discussions on the subject of room acoustics, and my own talk was specifically about designing loudspeakers with a 'holistic' approach, viz. taking the system context into account. Likewise, I have to help set up rooms at shows on occasion, so I believe I may have heard something about rooms needing to be factored into design and setup once or twice. Perhaps it was in a dream.
Re different types of music, since you have absolutely no idea what my taste in music is (for your information, a trifle eclectic), I can only assume this is an attempt to portray those who have 'reservations' about your sweeping claims that hard-wiring a system and removing the crossovers will invariably provide a 'night and day upgrade' (I paraphrase, but only slightly) as some form of blinkered idiots. Sorry: can't oblige.
Not sharing, or doing... hmm. Let's see, FH3, all of the spawn series, hundreds of various types of design on this & other forums, umpteen thousand posts here... That might have a chance of being thought of as 'sharing'. Perhaps. On a good day. Maybe.
That said, I'm delighted you are happy with your system, and feel your fine-adjustments have been of benefit. And please don't get us wrong: we are not necessarily arguing against some of these (perhaps all) being of use to others. What I am quietly trying to point out is that the massive gains you state you have obtained are not mirrored by experiments made by a number of people who may have as much experience, or even more, and that they cannot therefore be presented as some form of catagorical fact.
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Let me comment further on this, and particularily on the subject of speaker design.
Even the best speakers are highly compromised. Enuff that it is possible to pick two different sets of compromises that yield very different speakers that are equally valid.
Much of speaker design is choosing your compromises. Elevating one, ie time alignment, to the fore means sacrificing something else, that a different person might find important.
dave
Thanks more to you & Chris -you did a whole lot more of the spade-work than me. But I'm proud of being involved with it.
Too right about selecting compromises. I've quite literally just finished working up a new 2-way design with a 6in midbass & an FF85wk (well, it had to be done ) as the mid-tweet. There are 3 different crossover options, all at the same frequency, all giving a nominally flat FR, and they'll all sound different. I know which I'll probably prefer, but I'll reserve judgement until I get chance to cast an ear over it.
It's odd actually. My short talk last week had a few PP slides. One of them showed my three engineering / scientific heros -none of whom had anything directly to do with audio. John Scott Russell, Sir William White and Carl Sagan. I put them there because they all had a genius for balancing compromises.
But I'm proud of being involved with it. Too right about selecting compromises. I've quite literally just finished working up a new 2-way design with a 6in midbass & an FF85wk (well, it had to be done
) as the mid-tweet. There are 3 different crossover options, all at the same frequency, all giving a nominally flat FR, and they'll all sound different. I know which I'll probably prefer, but I'll reserve judgement until I get chance to cast an ear over it.It's odd actually. My short talk last week had a few PP slides. One of them showed my three engineering / scientific heros -none of whom had anything directly to do with audio. John Scott Russell, Sir William White and Carl Sagan. I put them there because they all had a genius for balancing compromises.
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I don't know guys...seems to me you maybe having trouble with dirty power lines injecting noise or something? I don't know what to say for your lack of your ability to see such obvious improvements that can be made from getting the lead (signal altering items) out of your systems especially when the math, sciences, arts & even religion (for lets face it, some of us are very very religious about their identities within this hobby) can explain or are you holding onto some idealisms that don't let you out of a box you have chosen to tape yourselves into? Anyway, yep, hardwiring is not for everyone, we are not all alike & should enjoy the character variations within mankind, rather than make us all automatons. Back to the post origins, I have used WBT nexgens in the past & they were a great improvement over the run of the mill binding posts in a positive audibility way.
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I just don't know where you guys get your experience from in DIY audio & why we can't figure out why your not able to see results from such simple upgrades or is that it, it's just not high faulting enough for you? I don't like braids but on girls....that's likely to broad a statement for those whose focus is limited to their own world view & them like em' hahaha
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Braided CAT5 no longer fashionable?!
(Heads to storage to retrieve unbraiding tool)I use unbraided CAT5 cables, just twisted... I think they are OK.
Speaker Cable Faceoff 3 - The DIY Shootout | Audioholics
Speaker Cable Faceoff 3 - The DIY Shootout | Audioholics
I just don't know where you guys get your experience from in DIY audio & why we can't figure out why your not able to see results from such simple upgrades or is that it, it's just not high faulting enough for you? I don't like braids but on girls....that's likely to broad a statement for those whose focus is limited to their own world view & them like em' hahaha
What upgrades? You are stating that every single hi-fi system without exception will have a massive upgrade by hard-wiring and removing the crossover from the cabinet. That is not the case, as demonstrated by people who have tried it and have not experienced the wonderful improvements (nature unspecified) you are claiming invariably occur. Quod erat demonstrandum.
A final thought: a post or two back, you hinted at unspecified improvements to be obtained by eliminating, or bypassing fuses. Without making any caveats of any kind whatsoever. Try pondering this. You are presumably aware that this is a potentially extremely dangerous practice if applied to mains voltages & currents, but this is an open forum, that may be read by youngsters, or others who may have very little understanding of the subject, or the risks involved when basic safety elements are bypassed or eliminated. Not bothering to note the risks involved is playing with people's lives. Exaggeration? No. You don't muck about with mains.
OK Guys I think I got it.
Now I need to move from the connection to the x0ver or amplifier to the
connection at the speaker driver itself.
What shall we use?
for Tweeter, Midrange on top in an MTM?
Bass drivers at the bottom of the speaker cabinet?
Solder it to the delicate tweeter terminals??
Or
Crimp on connection then solder it (to the wire),
followed by sliding the terminal on the speaker terminal?
Any preferences? I'm probably not going to be doing the
change the drivers a lot thing.
If then adding a sub, then the same for it also?
Terminals to the Terminals? Or solder wire directly
to the terminals?
Then for the streamlined look for the sub
would speakon be suitable also?
CAT 5? Plasnu or Anyman?
Finally, about the cat5 use as speaker cable.
If I read the link properly all the pairs of one
cable was twisted into Positive and all pairs of
the other cable was twisted in Negative cable?
Did anyone try Solid 4 for positive and striped
4 for negative? So that the pairs are used?
Thanks,
Sync
Now I need to move from the connection to the x0ver or amplifier to the
connection at the speaker driver itself.
What shall we use?
for Tweeter, Midrange on top in an MTM?
Bass drivers at the bottom of the speaker cabinet?
Solder it to the delicate tweeter terminals??
Or
Crimp on connection then solder it (to the wire),
followed by sliding the terminal on the speaker terminal?
Any preferences? I'm probably not going to be doing the
change the drivers a lot thing.
If then adding a sub, then the same for it also?
Terminals to the Terminals? Or solder wire directly
to the terminals?
Then for the streamlined look for the sub
would speakon be suitable also?
CAT 5? Plasnu or Anyman?
Finally, about the cat5 use as speaker cable.
If I read the link properly all the pairs of one
cable was twisted into Positive and all pairs of
the other cable was twisted in Negative cable?
Did anyone try Solid 4 for positive and striped
4 for negative? So that the pairs are used?
Thanks,
Sync
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