Line Array Full Range Specs?

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ra7

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A lot of people like the Vifa TC9. It has a smooth response and a low-distortion motor. For a line array, you are looking for as small a driver as possible with which you can comfortably hit the lowest frequency you intend to reproduce using the array. A smaller size will push comb-filtering upwards, though this is really not a problem in real-world situations as long as you sit far away from the array. The TC9 hits the spot because of the aforementioned qualities and because it is very cheap.

Here is my line array build thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html

I know of at least two more folks here on diyaudio who have also built line arrays using the TC9.
 
One of the benefits of the TC9 for line array duty is that it has a slightly rising top end and minimal ringing in it's impulse. Personally I didn't choose it for it's attractive price.
Though I won't complain about it either :).

Look in this thread for a lot of measurements from different sources: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268626-vifa-tc9fd18-08-best-bang-buck-43.html#post4262278

If you do decide to build a line array using full range drivers, be prepared to use DSP/EQ to get it to work.

Here's another: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/253367-halair-column-my-line-array-build-20-fr-drivers.html

And still more: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array-4.html#post2648779
(one of the first arrays with the Vifa I've seen)

And yet another: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/193015-stupid-cheap-line-array-20.html#post2880392

It shows the Vifa TC9 FD18-08 is quite popular for line arrays, and for a good reason.

Most important to me: clean IR, rising high frequency response, flat FR response and clean early waterfall plots. For a cheap driver it's very well made with shorting rings and a good combination of basket material and the paper cone. The low price is a bonus.

Be aware that there are actually 2 drivers with the "TC9" designation in the Tymphany camp. We are all talking about the Vifa TC9 FD18-08.
In Germany this Vifa driver is also known as the Peerless FR35/8.
 
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Founder of XSA-Labs
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If cost is no object. Get qnty 50 x ScanSpeak 10F/8424 or 10F/8414. Like TC9FD but even better. Basically the same designers of the TC9FD/TG9FD but told to go hog wild in specifying it. :D

Another option is TG9FD10-8. It's about $22 ea but has the nice smooth fiberglass sound of the 10F without the price.

Other options to consider are Fountek FR88EX and Dayton RS100P-8.

None of these options will have the sensitivity of the 3FE25 - something to consider at $19ea.
 
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i can get Fountek FR88EX and Fountek FR89EX too.

can i use less than 50 units? how much power i will need to move 25 drivers on each cabinet? :S

If use these 25 drivers at front, can i build using the same drivers some center channel and surround ones ? (of course using less driver amount!)

Regards
 
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Those Founteks actually are very nice. I did not like aluminum cone drivers until I listened to one. They use a lot of rubber damping sheets and cement to get rid of the ringing. Very clear HF presentation that probably beats the venerable TC9.

What you want is to have as many drivers filling the vertical space floor to ceiling as possible. That's how they make their magic. Too short and it just sounds like a combing array of small drivers. When you have 25 per side it is about same area as a 15in woofer so bass can be very palpable.

I would say probably say 20 vertical is minimum. You would run 4x5 series parallel so maybe 10ohms or 6.4ohms equivalent load.

You don't need much to driver them as they are more sensitive when series parallel (97dB equivalent IIRC for 25 TC9's). But to get full bass impact I remember hearing a 250w class AB amp is needed. However it seems like many people are pretty happy with a 100w amp for smaller spaces.
 
Those Founteks actually are very nice. I did not like aluminum cone drivers until I listened to one. They use a lot of rubber damping sheets and cement to get rid of the ringing. Very clear HF presentation that probably beats the venerable TC9.

What you want is to have as many drivers filling the vertical space floor to ceiling as possible. That's how they make their magic. Too short and it just sounds like a combing array of small drivers. When you have 25 per side it is about same area as a 15in woofer so bass can be very palpable.

I would say probably say 20 vertical is minimum. You would run 4x5 series parallel so maybe 10ohms or 6.4ohms equivalent load.

You don't need much to driver them as they are more sensitive when series parallel (97dB equivalent IIRC for 25 TC9's). But to get full bass impact I remember hearing a 250w class AB amp is needed. However it seems like many people are pretty happy with a 100w amp for smaller spaces.

70 watt would be enough with the 10F to get similar results as 240 watt on the Vifa's ;).

Forgot to mention: if you want your arrays to do bass: x-max gets important too, the 10F, TC9 and TG9 are covered with about 2.6 mm. But do check the other candidates! The Founteks don't have a comparable x-max, do they?

Hmm according to this: Spec sheet they have 3mm of x-max. Making it another good candidate. I remember the IR being reasonably clean. Cleaner than the Dayton mentioned.

I'd recommend looking into FIR filtering to do the necessary EQ.
 
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But sadly, it doesn't have a rising top end, is it clean in early waterfall plots?
I do have an IR of a RS100P fast, and gmad showed excellent results with a single driver. The waterfall on that Fast isn't as clean as I've seen from Vifa/Scan Speak. Remember you get it multiplied by the number of drivers. Better start with the cleanest one.
 
That would depend, are you going to run them full-range? (with EQ for bass?)
The DEQ2496 would be a better choice, but I'd recommend using FIR filters over IIR based EQ.

I run a PC with JRiver to do that job but there are stand alone solutions available. JRiver could do double duty for home theatre though. With the right sound card. I run it in 4.0 for home theatre (no sub or center) and 2 + 2x ambient back channels for music. (the back channels being single driver Scan Speak 10F)

I actually have an unused DEQ2496 I bought for my project, unused in a box upstairs since 2011. Never seen power. JRiver has won me over as it's also very well equipped for home theatre, taking care of the delay of my FIR filters with movie playback. I run long FIR filters to have good resolution in bass frequencies, but it does cause delay.
 
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ra7

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To be honest, I don't think the Scanspeak 10F would be an improvement in a line array implementation. Yes, it is better built than the Vifa TC9 and may have a slightly improved response, but once EQ'ed, I would bet that you can't tell them apart. Assuming you use EQ (FIR) to filter the array response, I don't see what the 10F brings to the table over the TC9. Now, real improvements could be found with high quality drivers that are smaller in size. If you can get the same smooth response, good x-max, good quality motor, low resonant frequency in a smaller package, that would be a real improvement to the design.

This guy might be worth a try:
Fullrange – Scan-Speak A/S

It's got all the right ingredients. From the specs:
- Powerful Neo Ring Motor, Symmetric Drive
- 1" Voice Coil, Ti Former, European Soft Parts
- Paper Cone, Foam Surround, Long Excursion
- Large Pole Piece Vent, Low Distortion
- Wide Frequency Range
- Extended Copper Cap on Pole Piece

The array does take on the qualities of the single driver. But the TC9 is already a great driver and the 10F is a small improvement. Beyond a point, the magic is in the array. And if you are going to improve on the sound, then you have to start with what makes a better array. Smaller drivers, that's what.
 
I'm also very interested in this. I'm moving to a bigger apartment soon, with an extra room. Which of course means, it's going to be a listening room!

I was very much awed by wesaysos and Halairs TC9 line array projects, and am currently looking forward on building my own, but I'll start a thread on it when the time comes. Thinking 28 TC9s per line... :)
 
well, in two weeks will place the order of the drivers to build the two towers.

first i want to build two main fronts and will be used to music and to watch movies (will purchase some aditional drivers to build the center and rear ones, and maybe 2 more to add atmos option to the HT)

But have a few questions before...

1 - can someone please tellme if will get an great improvement if use 25 instead 20 per side? maybe can use 25 if purchase FR88EX and 20 if use FR89EX.
2 - recommend me to expend a little more and purchase the 89 ones, have 5mm Excursion instead 3mm ones.
3 - if build the Line Array will be OK to insert an tweeter? was thinking add a ribbon one at listener position of the line array but of course will need to add more components, more money to spend and maybe will soind worst :/
4 - how to calculate the right power for the towers? for example FR88ex recommend 15W/each one and FR89 25W/each one.

Well thanks in advance!
 
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