Tell me more about those! I was considering putting a few drivers in the ceiling for Atmos speakers as well as at the rear wall for surrounds. But did not consider ceiling corner mounted at the rear. I was just going to use a couple bookshelf speakers probably but integrating into the walls could be an option.
They are Tangband 3" polyprop. 6 per side, 3 parallel/2 sets of 3 in series giving ~5ohm impedance. They are simply mounted on a piece of wood that I mounted in the ceiling/rear wall corner, no box or anything. The ceiling is made of rockwool, hence the early bass roll off
Is it weird having the rear channels up high? I always thought they should be ear level if possible. I know a lot of folks have them in the ceiling and that would actually be ideal from a space use consideration. But just wondering if I should prioritize the level above the space. I can see putting three pairs of small arrays across the ceiling to cover all of the ambient channels in a clean way so that's appealing to me if the answer to the first question is, "No, not really."
I think there are a few problems with the horizontal line arrays on the ceiling, but I haven't tried them - so take with a grain of salt:
1. horizontal line arrays will inherently limit horizontal dispersion, not what you want for surround channels especially. moving off axis you would really only locate the closer one.
2. according to dolby / itu specs, surrounds should be at ear level - ish, and also not directly behind you.
3. small vertical line arrays build into / mounted onto the sidewalls would have less issues. (i have tried this, just behind or ahead of the listening position, and it worked well)
That makes sense to me. I might be able to get them at the side walls... perhaps a handful for a small vertical array of full range drivers, likely the same as I'm using in the fronts. It's not ideal as one would be on a wall and the other would be at the outside corner of adjoining walls. But probably better than having them in the ceiling or at the back wall. And my HT receiver will likely have some sort of room correction so that would help correct the difference to some degree. Still have lots of time to plan so things may change...
I have so many constraints at home regarding audio... One of them was surround speakers.
Shape of the room dictated this one, and since my back wall is also the staircase, I couldn't place the surrounds there.
My solution was to mount two way firing speakers on the ceiling firing towards the front and the back. They are slightly behind our heads, and I get a diffuse sound this way, not direct, which was my understanding of how surrounds should be used.
I hear things happening behind me on the right and the left, but because of their diffused sound, it's not pinpoint accuracy.
Example of my surround speakers
Shape of the room dictated this one, and since my back wall is also the staircase, I couldn't place the surrounds there.
My solution was to mount two way firing speakers on the ceiling firing towards the front and the back. They are slightly behind our heads, and I get a diffuse sound this way, not direct, which was my understanding of how surrounds should be used.
I hear things happening behind me on the right and the left, but because of their diffused sound, it's not pinpoint accuracy.
Example of my surround speakers
this was the only place I could put up rear speakers, below is the window which is as wide as the room.... which also lead to the choice for a small array, the only way to have a bit of Sd at limited height. I have the surrounds also rather high, again dictated by the room layout.
Out of curiosity, what are you all doing from a signal chain perspective? Integrated HT receiver? 2 channel only? HTPC? Separates?
I have to integrate a turntable, PS3, cable box, PC, and maybe an Apple TV into my system. And of course, the amps for the IB sub. So there are a huge number of permutations to consider.
As a reminder, for amps, I already have two nCore 400 DIY amps, a two channel chip amp, and a mid-level Yamaha integrated receiver. I also have a balanced mini-DSP that I was planning on using before the FIR/IIR discussion happened. In any case, it sounds like I may need to prioritize HT vs. 2-channel to decide on what path to take. But I figured it would be nice to hear about others' setups.
I'm tempted to just get a higher end integrated Atmos amp that has Dirac or something similar and be done with it. But that also doesn't seem like as much fun! =)
I have to integrate a turntable, PS3, cable box, PC, and maybe an Apple TV into my system. And of course, the amps for the IB sub. So there are a huge number of permutations to consider.
As a reminder, for amps, I already have two nCore 400 DIY amps, a two channel chip amp, and a mid-level Yamaha integrated receiver. I also have a balanced mini-DSP that I was planning on using before the FIR/IIR discussion happened. In any case, it sounds like I may need to prioritize HT vs. 2-channel to decide on what path to take. But I figured it would be nice to hear about others' setups.
I'm tempted to just get a higher end integrated Atmos amp that has Dirac or something similar and be done with it. But that also doesn't seem like as much fun! =)
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Hmm, the Arcam AVR 850 looks like the only integrated amp that has both Atmos and Dirac.
It's not cheap... but perhaps worth it to incredibly simplify my signal chain? Other options? Dirac seems like the only thing that would be comparable to the convolution that JRiver offers. Also, no problems with video/audio sync. Easier to use although perhaps less flexible.
Any other integrated amps (or even a processor) with both Dirac and Atmos?
It's not cheap... but perhaps worth it to incredibly simplify my signal chain? Other options? Dirac seems like the only thing that would be comparable to the convolution that JRiver offers. Also, no problems with video/audio sync. Easier to use although perhaps less flexible.
Any other integrated amps (or even a processor) with both Dirac and Atmos?
Currently I only have an aging HK AVR9500 driving the fronts and surrounds. The rear-array is form the 'surround-back' pre-out from the HK via a 2x4 minidsp to a separate amp (el-cheapo Sure chipamp). Somewhere this year I will upgrade to probably a minidsp NanoAVR (dirac?) based solution and a 6 channel icepower amp. Maybe a HT preamp/processor will also be in the chain, but not sure yet. Front speakers for HT (currently my 3way CSS's) will be a line array with Tangband W4-1320's next to the screen (to be completed somewhere this year).
For stereo I will make a separate ncore based chain.
For stereo I will make a separate ncore based chain.
yes, but not clear on the details, should use triggers from the preamp and also usable by the other family members. will probably end up with separate speakers for stereo I guess (have enough projects on the shelf
)
Looks like the Arcam 550 is the leading contender... so far. It also has pretty good zone 2 capabilities that I might be able to leverage in our living room. It's a fair distance away though so I'm not sure if it will be practical/possible to drive speakers that far away and have the signal travel that far. It's one floor up and probably about 40 feet away. Anyone have experience with something similar?
I do hope you're still keeping the option open of including FIR filtering and preferably a more open version than an integrated one in an amp.
FIR correction does stand a better chance of taming the line arrays. I'd suggest Audiolense, Acourate or DRC-FIR, something similar to those.
I'd still go to a PC based solution, making it a dedicated part (and could run windows).
I promise, I won't mention it again.
FIR correction does stand a better chance of taming the line arrays. I'd suggest Audiolense, Acourate or DRC-FIR, something similar to those.
I'd still go to a PC based solution, making it a dedicated part (and could run windows).
I promise, I won't mention it again
.
It's still an option! And I appreciate the opinion for sure. The complexity of JRiver with home theatre seems daunting though. And can JRiver do Atmos or DTS-X?
I can deprioritize the HT thing and just do 2.1 in the short term I guess (while building in the speakers though.) Like I said, I have time though.
I can deprioritize the HT thing and just do 2.1 in the short term I guess (while building in the speakers though.) Like I said, I have time though.
Not yet as far as I know: Dolby Atmos
But I wouldn't be absolutely sure about using line arrays without (adjustable) FIR processing. Heck I don't know if I would want to be without it for other types of speakers after doing a few tests on an IR of one of the synergy threads.
I like the freedom to be in charge of all channels myself. Having heard the difference FIR can make I won't go back.
But I wouldn't be absolutely sure about using line arrays without (adjustable) FIR processing. Heck I don't know if I would want to be without it for other types of speakers after doing a few tests on an IR of one of the synergy threads.
I like the freedom to be in charge of all channels myself. Having heard the difference FIR can make I won't go back.
I always like to read about HT news (I was really into it when THX and its siblings came out), so I had to look up the Arcam 550.
Out of the box, it's a 7.1 receiver, that will turn the side channels into ceiling mounted, or reflected, channels. How much better are ceiling channels compared to side channels? I don't know since I've never tried. If you want 7.1 + Atmos ceiling channels, you'll have to buy extra amps.
Dirac has mixed reviews online. Most will say that the end result is subtle, and some say they lost the imaging from their 2-channel audio.
On a computer, it doesn't play well with other apps that hog the audio, so it wouldn't be good for me.
The improvements done by DRC in my room far outweigh the easiness of an all integrated receiver.
I actually see a lot of people picking up cheap used HDMI 1.3 receivers to add cheap amplification and multiple channels to their existing setups.
I, myself, am using a good old Yamaha DTS receiver with decent discrete amps, using the pre-in channels to drive my system.
There's also the pro-amp world. Recently, there was a sale on Crown X-1000 at $100 for 2x300w. Stack a bunch of those for a killer system!
Even the newer class D amps are starting to sound very good. The TPA3116D2 and the more recent 7492 family pack a punch while retaining clarity. For a price that can't be beat!
Having said that, there is currently no HTPC decoding the Atmos codec. So, if you are dead set on Atmos, or the upcoming DTS-X, you're stuck using a receiver and playing the "upgrade game" they have been pushing on people for so many years now.
For me, I'm not playing the game anymore.... having being burnt so many times... starting way back with Betamax systems that became obsolete way too early, and a few other times after that.
I'm enjoying my current htpc based system, while I keep reading about news over HT improvements from a distance...
Once Atmos or its equivalent becomes available to HTPC, I'm sure I'll take the plunge... after the blessing of my significant other, of course!
Out of the box, it's a 7.1 receiver, that will turn the side channels into ceiling mounted, or reflected, channels. How much better are ceiling channels compared to side channels? I don't know since I've never tried. If you want 7.1 + Atmos ceiling channels, you'll have to buy extra amps.
Dirac has mixed reviews online. Most will say that the end result is subtle, and some say they lost the imaging from their 2-channel audio.
On a computer, it doesn't play well with other apps that hog the audio, so it wouldn't be good for me.
The improvements done by DRC in my room far outweigh the easiness of an all integrated receiver.
I actually see a lot of people picking up cheap used HDMI 1.3 receivers to add cheap amplification and multiple channels to their existing setups.
I, myself, am using a good old Yamaha DTS receiver with decent discrete amps, using the pre-in channels to drive my system.
There's also the pro-amp world. Recently, there was a sale on Crown X-1000 at $100 for 2x300w. Stack a bunch of those for a killer system!
Even the newer class D amps are starting to sound very good. The TPA3116D2 and the more recent 7492 family pack a punch while retaining clarity. For a price that can't be beat!
Having said that, there is currently no HTPC decoding the Atmos codec. So, if you are dead set on Atmos, or the upcoming DTS-X, you're stuck using a receiver and playing the "upgrade game" they have been pushing on people for so many years now.
For me, I'm not playing the game anymore.... having being burnt so many times... starting way back with Betamax systems that became obsolete way too early, and a few other times after that.
I'm enjoying my current htpc based system, while I keep reading about news over HT improvements from a distance...
Once Atmos or its equivalent becomes available to HTPC, I'm sure I'll take the plunge... after the blessing of my significant other, of course!
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