Hi Deandob - what size enclosures were you thinking of using?
The Eikona will work in small, sealed enclosures - although admittedly not as small as the JXR6HD. A 2.5 litre volume (plus driver - so 2.8L total) would give a Q of about 0.8 and -3dB around 87Hz. Somewhat lower than the JXR6HD.
It is quite a different driver from the JX92 and much closer to the listening experience of the JXR6 at HF.
The Eikona will work in small, sealed enclosures - although admittedly not as small as the JXR6HD. A 2.5 litre volume (plus driver - so 2.8L total) would give a Q of about 0.8 and -3dB around 87Hz. Somewhat lower than the JXR6HD.
It is quite a different driver from the JX92 and much closer to the listening experience of the JXR6 at HF.
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Yea it does. Not as bad as some and a pretty good driver. Doesn't come with a gasket & the bezel is small enuff that it leaves no room for error (not unsurmountable but a nit). Much better value when they were $30 each (i bought 24 of them)
Not near as good as FF85wk, A6.2m, or A5.2.
dave
Colin, the application is a near field small desktop speaker - basically computer speakers that sit either side of my computer monitor. Current JXR6 speaker is 180mm x 400mm x 150mm (with edges sloped for bsc) and internal volume is 6L. The Elkona I think would look a bit strange in a cabinet of that size due to its diameter.
What about applying the lessons learnt / improvements for the Elkona to make a smaller driver as a replacement for the JXR6? Wasn't there enough demand for the original JXR6 to justify the R&D for a new driver?
Still thinking of trying the new alpair 5.2 as a replacement for the JXR6 but the JXR6 is a great driver & don't want to go backwards for my new project.
What about applying the lessons learnt / improvements for the Elkona to make a smaller driver as a replacement for the JXR6? Wasn't there enough demand for the original JXR6 to justify the R&D for a new driver?
Still thinking of trying the new alpair 5.2 as a replacement for the JXR6 but the JXR6 is a great driver & don't want to go backwards for my new project.
I'm currently using Eikonas in the 5.5L enclosures shown on our Resources page. Basically a LS3/5a enclosure - 300mm x 160 x 185mm.
I have some Jxr6s in 150 x 150 x 125mm ceramic enclosures from Homebase. About 2.5L and they look fine on the desktop. They're actually a plant holder and a wooden baffle prevents them from ringing. One day I'll try a larger version for the Eikonas.
I have some Jxr6s in 150 x 150 x 125mm ceramic enclosures from Homebase. About 2.5L and they look fine on the desktop. They're actually a plant holder and a wooden baffle prevents them from ringing. One day I'll try a larger version for the Eikonas.
Colin, can you describe the subjective difference (improvements) I would get with an Elkonas compared to the JXR6HD? I use a large monitor so with the right box design it might not look out of place with a larger driver. Key for this design is a low Fo so that I can cross over around 100Hz and use a separate subwoofer in a different location to the drivers (ala typical computer speakers but of course sounding much better....).
Chrisb - I will look into the FF85WK as well, thanks for the tip.
Chrisb - I will look into the FF85WK as well, thanks for the tip.
The main difference will be lower cut-off frequency. I assume you're applying some EQ to the JXR6 to get to 100Hz? The Eikonas in a 4-6L box will reach 85Hz without any bass boost required and go louder. A vented box will go lower still but won't be required with the subwoofer.
The Eikona's wider cone will become directional at a lower frequency, which may be beneficial in reducing reflections from the monitor and desk.
The Eikona's wider cone will become directional at a lower frequency, which may be beneficial in reducing reflections from the monitor and desk.
If you are in Eikona price point territory - definitely look at ScanSpeak 10F/8424 and Visaton B80. My opinion (not having heard the FF85WK or Eikona - but based on published measurements and experience testing a lot of drivers for FAST use) - these two will sound better than any of them and beat them in a blind listening test.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
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Thanks guys for the feedback. I roll off the JXR6 around 120Hz with an active crossover and include BSC. The design is so old now I can't locate the schematic anymore....
Thinking this through a little more, a desktop near field speaker has different design characteristics compared to a more standard far field setup. Here are the things I can think of that are important when selecting a suitable driver:
1) Crossover around 100Hz or lower to avoid the bass from a subwoofer becoming directional
2) Running the driver well within its Xmax to avoid increasing distortion (especially as the driver is asked to reproduce a large frequency range). Should be easy if Fo is low enough as nearfield doesn't require a lot of SPL.
3) Be careful of treble that beams - can be especially a problem with larger drivers
4) BSC with a wall directly behind and a flat computer monitor surface between the driver.
5) A nice attribute of the JXR6 is with such a small, thin and light metal cone it is very dynamic which produces a strong image (nearfield listening helps as well). I'd like to keep that characteristic if possible (larger drivers won't be as responsive due to mass).
6) Be careful of internal reflections coming back out of the cone with such a small enclosure - especially a problem with thin metal cones.
Is there anything else I should be thinking about for choosing a driver for nearfield / desktop listening? I need to spend some time on the weekend going through the threads referenced here.
Thinking this through a little more, a desktop near field speaker has different design characteristics compared to a more standard far field setup. Here are the things I can think of that are important when selecting a suitable driver:
1) Crossover around 100Hz or lower to avoid the bass from a subwoofer becoming directional
2) Running the driver well within its Xmax to avoid increasing distortion (especially as the driver is asked to reproduce a large frequency range). Should be easy if Fo is low enough as nearfield doesn't require a lot of SPL.
3) Be careful of treble that beams - can be especially a problem with larger drivers
4) BSC with a wall directly behind and a flat computer monitor surface between the driver.
5) A nice attribute of the JXR6 is with such a small, thin and light metal cone it is very dynamic which produces a strong image (nearfield listening helps as well). I'd like to keep that characteristic if possible (larger drivers won't be as responsive due to mass).
6) Be careful of internal reflections coming back out of the cone with such a small enclosure - especially a problem with thin metal cones.
Is there anything else I should be thinking about for choosing a driver for nearfield / desktop listening? I need to spend some time on the weekend going through the threads referenced here.
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This is very low for a FAST - you are making HT satellite speakers and not FAST in the usual sense where XO is circa 300Hz to 400Hz. Harmonic distortion rises appreciably with all full range drivers below 300Hz as the cone has to really move air to make sound. Can you get woofers closer to the tops? There is a big difference in how clean it sounds when running 100Hz XO vs 300Hz XO. 100Hz is essentially free full range with the cone flapping around.
If you set your XO at 100Hz, you will likely exceed xmax for moderate to high SPL, or dynamic peaks. This can all be modeled and predicted.
Yes, that is one reason to stay with 3in or 3.5in dia drivers.
There will be about -5dB baffle step loss from 1kHz on down due to typical baffle widths used. The wall behind won't help much unless speaker is in a flat wall mount enclosure. The wall behind may cause back reflection cancellation dips around 80Hz and 150Hz. Again, all can be predicted.
Thin cones also ring. If you don't mind the "tizz" sound then that's good. I mentioned the FR88EX earlier, it has a light aluminum cone and reaches a solid 20kHz+ and does not ring badly like some other aluminum lightweight cones (like A7.3).
Yes, and this can be solved with the "Dagger" or Nautaloss tapered sealed spiral TL stuffed to form aperiodic TL that flattens impedance peak.
Dagger info and info on implementation of a reference quality FAST here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/273524-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-ref-monitor.html
Think about the XO topology you want to use. Try to preserve transient perfect nature of a full range driver. Use of higher order LR2 symmetric or LR4 symmetric will not be transient perfect. Use of BW1 will be good but allows too much woofer slop to bleed thru. Look at Harsch XO for quasi transient perfect yet still control cone breakup on woofer.
More info here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-s-harsch-xo.html
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The Eikona would seem to fit most of those requirements, with the proviso that the lower frequency of beaming of the larger driver can be used to advantage.
For the same linear maximum dB output as the JXR6, you could drop the crossover point to 50Hz.
I should point out that not all thin cones 'ring'. Ted Jordan has been at this game for a while.
For the same linear maximum dB output as the JXR6, you could drop the crossover point to 50Hz.
I should point out that not all thin cones 'ring'. Ted Jordan has been at this game for a while.
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Are there any impulse response plots for the Eikona available? Based on the published frequency response
Jordan loudspeaker drive units
I see 10kHz peak that is nearly 10dB above the average level. The inverse FFT of this will show a ringing signature at 10kHz.
Jordan loudspeaker drive units
I see 10kHz peak that is nearly 10dB above the average level. The inverse FFT of this will show a ringing signature at 10kHz.
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