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I do not turn on the tweeter. Only sometimes, for a change. I hear sound up to about 19000 Hz. Audio Nirvana reproduces sound up to 16000 Hz (I hear a test signal through Audio Nirvana at 16,000 Hz), although with a significant drop in pressure. Without a significant drop in sound pressure - up to 13,500 Hz. But the lack of high frequencies in the sound is not noticeable!
The problem is quite different. When I turned on the speakers for the first time, I was shocked. Bass was not at all! I thought, what a shitty loudspeaker! The problem was solved quickly. These speakers need correction of the frequency response. They have a strong pressure rise in the region of 1.5-6.5 kHz, and besides, like any acoustic speakers, a baffle-step of 250 Hz is approximately 6 dB. And so this part of the spectrum screams much louder than the bass. I did not make a correction circuit (RC or something like that). I just applied the equalizer Fubar - suppressed frequencies 1.5-6.5 by about 12 dB and 230 - 1500 Hz - by 3-6 dB. If desired, you can raise the bass 30 - 60 Hz. And then the speakers sound very powerful, with a low and loud bass. I set the Bass reflex to 40 Hz. The problem is that the listening room amplifies some frequencies and suppresses others. But two loudspeakers compensate for the shortcomings and the frequency response on the bass becomes more even. From the listening point - 2.4 m from the speakers frequency response from 30 Hz to 4 dB.
As you listen, after a while, a frequency correction is required less.
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Your speakers look very nice !
Very interesting about the dispersion, that's very encouraging.
Like you, I found the sound became better over time. It seems that these drivers with their large surrounds took a few hundred hours to break-in. In my case I think It was over 300hrs before it was in song and around 500hrs I stopped noticing any further improvement.
I am not sure, but I don't know if the plans for these speakers from common sense audio are properly modelled. I use open back and have not needed any EQ but with your lower Q driver did you model the enclosure to check if the port lengths are adequate?
Very interesting about the dispersion, that's very encouraging.
Like you, I found the sound became better over time. It seems that these drivers with their large surrounds took a few hundred hours to break-in. In my case I think It was over 300hrs before it was in song and around 500hrs I stopped noticing any further improvement.
I am not sure, but I don't know if the plans for these speakers from common sense audio are properly modelled. I use open back and have not needed any EQ but with your lower Q driver did you model the enclosure to check if the port lengths are adequate?
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Yes, of course I modeled the hull. BassBox Pro shows a smooth response from almost 40 Hz. The Arta and the ECM8000 microphone show that both loudspeakers sound from 30 Hz to minus 4 dB. I was testing the sound of the speakers without the back. There prevails midbass, lots of it. With closed drawers is much better. Here are examples of sound, although the recording does not show the full picture of the sound:
Spinning on an Axis.wav — Yandex.Disk
If I feel (Fauntek).m4a — Yandex.Disk
20180316_2152.m4a — Yandex.Disk
Porcelain.m4a — Yandex.Disk
Вивальди-Лето (начало).wav — Yandex.Disk
Spinning on an Axis.wav — Yandex.Disk
If I feel (Fauntek).m4a — Yandex.Disk
20180316_2152.m4a — Yandex.Disk
Porcelain.m4a — Yandex.Disk
Вивальди-Лето (начало).wav — Yandex.Disk
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I listened to these tracks through my iMac as my hi-fi system is down so it's hard to tell much from this - actually it sounds nothing like my AN 15" Super - it sounds more 'closed in' which I'm sure is a reflection of the speakers in my iMac being the antithesis of what you have ! I like your selection of music, especially the Vivaldi.
Of course it sounds closed, as the boxes are closed) I like a heavy powerful bass. With an open back wall, it cannot be done. At all, me seems, that bass I made too many. The bass needs to be slightly removed by the equalizer, then the sound can be more open. As for the open baffle, my AN15 is not suitable for this because of the low Qts.
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I made a box of a different size and shape than recommended by audio Nirvana. I chose the size of the between maximally large and middle - 280 liters. It is necessary to know that the dynamics of the model "Classic" on the ferrite have low qts. This means that the bass may not be enough. That's good, because a low qts value means good control of the diffuser and the absence of parasitic oscillations - clear bass. To compensate for the bass, you need to apply an equalizer or other correction. Also, the equalizer is necessary for these speakers to attenuate frequencies of 2000-7000 Hz. Without correction, these frequencies will suppress other frequencies and the sound will be dry and unpleasant. Bass will be very little. In order to have bass, you just need to suppress the region 2000-7000 Hz by about 10 dB, and the region 150-2000 suppress by 3-6 dB with a gradual attenuation from 150 Hz to 2000 Hz.
Here are examples of sound:
2.wav — Yandex.Disk
3.wav — Yandex.Disk
1.wav — Yandex.Disk
Here are examples of sound:
2.wav — Yandex.Disk
3.wav — Yandex.Disk
1.wav — Yandex.Disk
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Hi Vitaly81,
did you have any further longer-term listening impressions ?
I took a look at the FR data for the classic vs the super and I can see now why you were wanting some EQ - the super 15 has a much more extended bass response. I was hoping that the classic may have loosened up a bit too ?
did you have any further longer-term listening impressions ?
I took a look at the FR data for the classic vs the super and I can see now why you were wanting some EQ - the super 15 has a much more extended bass response. I was hoping that the classic may have loosened up a bit too ?
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Well, with the money spent and time spent you probably want to keep what you have. But if you get the itch for a change, I would suggest looking at the Super 15" driver instead. The frequency response looks way better, especially the bass. And it has far better dispersion in the treble. Problem is that the Ferrite version is out of production and the AlNiCo version is kind of pricey. In my opinion, based on the data sheets, there aren't many of the Audio Nirvana drivers that I'd try but the Super12" Ferrite would be my first choice would my wallet limit my choice of magnet material. The Super 12" Ferrite looks on paper to be very similar to the Super 15" Ferrite which I have one of and have found it darn good. I run it without any EQ. I'm sure the bass is not 'flat' because I run it in an open back box with the resulting wrap-around effects but I've yet to find a speaker as satisfying.
In General, the frequency response measurements show that there is no serious decline in the bass. But there is a built-up sensitivity rise from 200 Hz, and this is more likely due to the buffle-step. In addition, a strong rise of 1.5-7000 kHz, so I do not understand how you listen without the equalizer. Yes, I would like to listen to the classic model, but only 15". As for alnico, I don't understand why it's better. After all, it has high Qts for use in the phase inverter. Either way, I like the classic 15 sound with the equalizer. I asked David if the Classic model would have a weak bass (if you look at the graph) and he said that the Classic and Super models are the same.Now we see that this is not true...
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The driver I have is different from yours and does not require any EQ at all for the upper registers. You have the Classic 15” and I have the Super 15”; they are both Ferrite. My driver is no longer available in the Ferrite version and I only mentioned AlNiCo because if you wanted to try the Super 15” you would only have the choice of AlNiCo. I offered the alternative suggestion of the Super 12” because it is available with Ferrite and the datasheet and construction look so similar to the driver I have that I believe it would sound as-good without EQ.
Yes, I understand. But I'm not interested in using a 12" driver. It is a pity that at the time of purchase was not Super 15. However, even if this model was available, I would still buy the Classic 15, because David said that it has less distortion, and otherwise differs only in the dispersion of high frequencies.
This thread is the most current that I could find so I thought I'd revive it with what I think about my build. In a few weeks I'll be home where my 12 '' classics are waiting. I'll build the 5.6 mill to put them in according to the plans provided by Dave. I also bought his EL84 amp to power the AN 12's.
Sounds similar to my fane 250tc 12" dual whizzer.
Best solution for me was sit off axis (aimed it maybe knees when driver sitting near floor), then eq down 1khz - whatever khz.
That way it also sounds better all over the room, not just eq'd for at the sweet spot.
They are a good solution.
I should have bought 4 to make a line array that would have some slam.
With the floppy qts, it would have wanted a huge box though.
Norman
Best solution for me was sit off axis (aimed it maybe knees when driver sitting near floor), then eq down 1khz - whatever khz.
That way it also sounds better all over the room, not just eq'd for at the sweet spot.
They are a good solution.
I should have bought 4 to make a line array that would have some slam.
With the floppy qts, it would have wanted a huge box though.
Norman
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