Hi there,
Long time reader, first time poster.
For this summer I decided to upgrade my portable sound which currently is handled by a Bose Soundlink (first gen.) by building something myself.
This is my first speaker build so to try to mitigate this lack of experience I've spent more than 100 hours the last month or so trying to read up on the theory. I think I've read everything on the net around Saturnus different Boominator builds and a multitude of other more or less successful builds.
During my initial research I was rather set on building a "Thodio clone". You know 6.5" car speakers and massive power headroom to drive these rather inefficient designs.
The more research I did the more I realized that a portable setup should ideally be built with high efficiency drivers and a different mindset all together.
I almost took the plunge and bought a Boominiator Mini v2 kit and just be done with it. But since it seems that not even Saturnus is recommending the Monacor SP-60/8 anymore because of inconsistent quality control I decided not to.
Anyways...
Finally I got tired of theory and decided to just go for it and hope that the research I've done so far was enough.
Here is the hardware I've currently sourced.
4x Faital Pro 4FE32 8 ohm (http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/4FE32/8/4FE32_datasheet_8.pdf)
TPA3116 Amp (blue board)
10AH 12,8V LIFEPO4 Battery Pack
12V 6A Power Supply
LIFEPO4 Solar Charge Controller
DC-DC Step Up Board (To feed the charge controller)
+ all the connections, wires, switches needed for a complete build
Before settling on a final design with fancy woodwork I decided to build a proof of concept box (in cheap laminated pine).
Fueled by all the positive comments regarding the bipolar design of the Boominators I designed a box with 2x9L compartments tuned to 75Hz.
With 2 drivers playing on opposite sides of the box in each compartment (Very simiar to the original Boominator Mini style).
Initial listening impressions
As soon as the volume increased the amp started making poping sounds on low notes, bottoming out the speaker drivers.
After much thought I came to the conlusion that 7 ohm minimal impedance of the 4FE32 drivers could actually be lower than that.
To test this theory I rewired the drivers to a serial setup instead.
Problem gone but the resulting 15-16 ohm impedance feels a bit unfortunate in a portable setup.
After rewiring... Loud and clear but unfortunately the bass is rather underwhelming.
Maybe I should have understood that the FS of 100Hz of those drivers would never play any serious bass?
Was I wrong in understanding that you could tune a bass reflex design lower than the driver's FS?
Have I missed something obvious you think?
If you had the above listed hardware... What would you build with it?
Add another driver and use the 4FE32s for mid and treble?
Ditch the drivers all together and buy something else?
All advice and input is appreciated.
Thanks
tMisO
Long time reader, first time poster.
For this summer I decided to upgrade my portable sound which currently is handled by a Bose Soundlink (first gen.) by building something myself.
This is my first speaker build so to try to mitigate this lack of experience I've spent more than 100 hours the last month or so trying to read up on the theory. I think I've read everything on the net around Saturnus different Boominator builds and a multitude of other more or less successful builds.
During my initial research I was rather set on building a "Thodio clone". You know 6.5" car speakers and massive power headroom to drive these rather inefficient designs.
The more research I did the more I realized that a portable setup should ideally be built with high efficiency drivers and a different mindset all together.
I almost took the plunge and bought a Boominiator Mini v2 kit and just be done with it. But since it seems that not even Saturnus is recommending the Monacor SP-60/8 anymore because of inconsistent quality control I decided not to.
Anyways...
Finally I got tired of theory and decided to just go for it and hope that the research I've done so far was enough.
Here is the hardware I've currently sourced.
4x Faital Pro 4FE32 8 ohm (http://www.faitalpro.com/products/files/4FE32/8/4FE32_datasheet_8.pdf)
TPA3116 Amp (blue board)
10AH 12,8V LIFEPO4 Battery Pack
12V 6A Power Supply
LIFEPO4 Solar Charge Controller
DC-DC Step Up Board (To feed the charge controller)
+ all the connections, wires, switches needed for a complete build
Before settling on a final design with fancy woodwork I decided to build a proof of concept box (in cheap laminated pine).
Fueled by all the positive comments regarding the bipolar design of the Boominators I designed a box with 2x9L compartments tuned to 75Hz.
With 2 drivers playing on opposite sides of the box in each compartment (Very simiar to the original Boominator Mini style).
Initial listening impressions
As soon as the volume increased the amp started making poping sounds on low notes, bottoming out the speaker drivers.
After much thought I came to the conlusion that 7 ohm minimal impedance of the 4FE32 drivers could actually be lower than that.
To test this theory I rewired the drivers to a serial setup instead.
Problem gone but the resulting 15-16 ohm impedance feels a bit unfortunate in a portable setup.
After rewiring... Loud and clear but unfortunately the bass is rather underwhelming.
Maybe I should have understood that the FS of 100Hz of those drivers would never play any serious bass?
Was I wrong in understanding that you could tune a bass reflex design lower than the driver's FS?
Have I missed something obvious you think?
If you had the above listed hardware... What would you build with it?
Add another driver and use the 4FE32s for mid and treble?
Ditch the drivers all together and buy something else?
All advice and input is appreciated.
Thanks
tMisO
Hi again,
Maybe I'm a bit inpatient but I'm really hoping to get some advice regarding this.
Currently my plans are to scrap the idea of using only 4FE32's and add some larger woofer for that low level umph I do currently lack. This will however add both bulk and weight which is unfortunate in this portable scenario.
So give it to me straight. Is it possible to get this to work or should I redesign? If so... Any tips?
Maybe this isn't the right sub forum for portable solutions?
Thanks
tMisO
Maybe I'm a bit inpatient but I'm really hoping to get some advice regarding this.
Currently my plans are to scrap the idea of using only 4FE32's and add some larger woofer for that low level umph I do currently lack. This will however add both bulk and weight which is unfortunate in this portable scenario.
So give it to me straight. Is it possible to get this to work or should I redesign? If so... Any tips?
Maybe this isn't the right sub forum for portable solutions?
Thanks
tMisO
Yeah you should be getting some boof from four 4"drivers, make sure they are all wired in phase, and by check I mean ignoring the markings and swapping the wires on the drivers to see which way sounds thin, I haven't had a chance to try this Faital driver but I would have chosen the same on paper they sound ideal.
It's also a little hard to say how much bass there should be and how much you are expecting because they are such subjective experiences, The drivers may also need a bit of loosening up, and sitting on a bench you will get less bass than sitting on the ground because of boundary loading.
Also you need more watts than the 12V battery can deliver to bottom out the driver, there is more likely to be a different cause like a power supply problem.
It's also a little hard to say how much bass there should be and how much you are expecting because they are such subjective experiences, The drivers may also need a bit of loosening up, and sitting on a bench you will get less bass than sitting on the ground because of boundary loading.
Also you need more watts than the 12V battery can deliver to bottom out the driver, there is more likely to be a different cause like a power supply problem.
Hey horst303,
Thank you for your valuable input.
Great that you think that the speakers should be a good choice for this setup.
I've tried out your suggestions.
As I see it they should be wired in phase. Seems to be correctly setup as far as I can tell by rewiring and listening in.
As for power supply problems I hooked up a 19V supply instead.
Same problem, not much difference noticed.
I also hooked up the TPA3116 to my home theater center (Yamaha Soavo 900C - Soavo-900C - Soavo - Home Speaker Systems - Speakers - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States) to see how that sounded.
Wow... This sounded great with a lot of power and low end thump. Power seems to be more than enough for rather high sound pressures. So I'd say that the power supply seems adequate.
Listening in a bit more. The sound is great in midrange and treble. Lots of details and very pure and clean sound. There is just so much energy missing in the lower ranges.
I'm thinking I've done something wrong with the bass reflex setup.
Right now each speaker compartment is 164x200x283 mm (9.3L).
The bass port has a diameter of 36 mm and is 32 mm long.
According to WinISD this should give a -3dB at 64Hz.
I have no dampening in the compartments. Pure wood at this stage.
I don't really feel much air movement in the ports. (Maybe that should be expected from the small woofers?)
Could leakage cause this effect?
Are my WinISD calculations wrong?
Any other ideas?
Thanks
Thank you for your valuable input.
Great that you think that the speakers should be a good choice for this setup.
I've tried out your suggestions.
As I see it they should be wired in phase. Seems to be correctly setup as far as I can tell by rewiring and listening in.
As for power supply problems I hooked up a 19V supply instead.
Same problem, not much difference noticed.
I also hooked up the TPA3116 to my home theater center (Yamaha Soavo 900C - Soavo-900C - Soavo - Home Speaker Systems - Speakers - Audio & Visual - Products - Yamaha United States) to see how that sounded.
Wow... This sounded great with a lot of power and low end thump. Power seems to be more than enough for rather high sound pressures. So I'd say that the power supply seems adequate.
Listening in a bit more. The sound is great in midrange and treble. Lots of details and very pure and clean sound. There is just so much energy missing in the lower ranges.
I'm thinking I've done something wrong with the bass reflex setup.
Right now each speaker compartment is 164x200x283 mm (9.3L).
The bass port has a diameter of 36 mm and is 32 mm long.
According to WinISD this should give a -3dB at 64Hz.
I have no dampening in the compartments. Pure wood at this stage.
I don't really feel much air movement in the ports. (Maybe that should be expected from the small woofers?)
Could leakage cause this effect?
Are my WinISD calculations wrong?
Any other ideas?
Thanks
The optimum volume vented (from parts express) is 3.6L, so 9L isn't outrageously different for two drivers, but try if you can fit a brick or something inside that will reduce the volume, just to see if you can improve things.
And tuning for 64Hz is really low, it's asking a lot for a woofer with a resonant frequency of 100Hz, and remember that trying for less than 100Hz with a battery outside is pointless anyway, because of the lack of boundary loading.
So you have swapped cables on one woofer and heard a big difference in bass output?
This to me is always a prime candidate when running two woofers on the same channel.
Also measure voice coil resistance, maybe something funky going on there, which is pretty unlikely but you want to check the easy things first.
Also get a sine wave generator for your computer or portable telephone to get a qualitative idea of where the problem starts.
You can also try and see if loosening the woofer suspension by playing a 30Hz tone for a couple of days, do that with the speakers wired out of phase and not in the box so you're not going to drive yourself crazy.
It is also possible that your expectations are too high of how much low output you can expect, Faital is a pro/PA speaker brand, and they always trade low output for SPL.
And tuning for 64Hz is really low, it's asking a lot for a woofer with a resonant frequency of 100Hz, and remember that trying for less than 100Hz with a battery outside is pointless anyway, because of the lack of boundary loading.
So you have swapped cables on one woofer and heard a big difference in bass output?
This to me is always a prime candidate when running two woofers on the same channel.
Also measure voice coil resistance, maybe something funky going on there, which is pretty unlikely but you want to check the easy things first.
Also get a sine wave generator for your computer or portable telephone to get a qualitative idea of where the problem starts.
You can also try and see if loosening the woofer suspension by playing a 30Hz tone for a couple of days, do that with the speakers wired out of phase and not in the box so you're not going to drive yourself crazy.
It is also possible that your expectations are too high of how much low output you can expect, Faital is a pro/PA speaker brand, and they always trade low output for SPL.
Well something has definitely changed the last couple of days.
The initial lackluster low-end is now completely transformed.
I now enjoy full rich sound in all frequencies just as I hoped.
I've had it to two barbecue parties so far and it has been an utter success.
I have gotten so much compliments regarding the clean and punchy sound. Even from people just passing by. Amazing.
Have tried so many different music genres and it plays them all with authority and utter cleanness. Rap, EDM, Trance, Blues, Jazz, Rock... etc. Without a hitch. And the 360-ich sound stage is perfect for outdoors. Sound travels very far as well.
I guess that the woofer suspensions required more play in time than I anticipated.
So... A very happy first time builder here.
These little speakers are fabulous.
Thanks again for your help horst303.
The initial lackluster low-end is now completely transformed.
I now enjoy full rich sound in all frequencies just as I hoped.
I've had it to two barbecue parties so far and it has been an utter success.
I have gotten so much compliments regarding the clean and punchy sound. Even from people just passing by. Amazing.
Have tried so many different music genres and it plays them all with authority and utter cleanness. Rap, EDM, Trance, Blues, Jazz, Rock... etc. Without a hitch. And the 360-ich sound stage is perfect for outdoors. Sound travels very far as well.
I guess that the woofer suspensions required more play in time than I anticipated.
So... A very happy first time builder here.
These little speakers are fabulous.
Thanks again for your help horst303.
We want pictures
Your tuning is a bit low and the ports are too small.
I'd recommend tuning the cabinet to 85Hz or so, and maybe use a subsonic filter at 80hz while you're at it. The cone excursion skyrockets under tuning, you don't want to have your drivers working hard for something they can't reproduce. Especially in a 'party speaker' it's a pity to let the drivers suffer while trying to pump at your 30hz dubstep bass.
Your tuning is a bit low and the ports are too small.
I'd recommend tuning the cabinet to 85Hz or so, and maybe use a subsonic filter at 80hz while you're at it. The cone excursion skyrockets under tuning, you don't want to have your drivers working hard for something they can't reproduce. Especially in a 'party speaker' it's a pity to let the drivers suffer while trying to pump at your 30hz dubstep bass.
Coming on to this thread late but those 4FE32's are exactly what I would have recommended as well. I have designed a DCR enclosure for this driver and it was tuned to 62Hz so not far off 64Hz and it worked very well. The only thing you may consider if you feel bass is still not enough is to add a baffle step correction filter between the amp and drivers to shelve the highs a bit. About 0.8mH and 4 to 6 ohms in parallel will make a noticeable difference.
So what do you think changed that made the bass come out? Breaking in or did you change anything?
Yes, photos would be great.
So what do you think changed that made the bass come out? Breaking in or did you change anything?
Yes, photos would be great.
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We want pictures
Your tuning is a bit low and the ports are too small.
I'd recommend tuning the cabinet to 85Hz or so, and maybe use a subsonic filter at 80hz while you're at it. The cone excursion skyrockets under tuning, you don't want to have your drivers working hard for something they can't reproduce. Especially in a 'party speaker' it's a pity to let the drivers suffer while trying to pump at your 30hz dubstep bass.
+1
I might push the tuning to 80hz, but no lower. An outdoor party speaker is a lot to ask of little 4" woofers. Using a highpass is a very good idea. Also, there's an old school trick of putting a big cap in line with a small speaker, to increase the perceived bass.
Hi guys,
Sorry for the very late reply.
Been on a long business trip.
OK, no laughing now. This box should be considered a "proof of concept" and is by no means intended as the final build.
As you can see it's very boominator-ish.
Love that design concept. Thanks Saturnus.
I'm still very happy with the sound quality and loudness of the box.
Think it's tuned well for all the types of music I play.
Picked up a Sure Bluetooth APT-X board when I was in Shanghai to add bluetooth capabilities the the box.
That board has some serious output gain.
Sounds great on moderate levels but I feel like the gain is way to high for this amp. It's easy to "overdrive" the amp which introduces nasty distortion and ear bleeding nice levels.
It also has some digital background noise that I haven't been able to get rid of.
If I run the board on a seperate powersupply it's dead quiet but as soon as the amp and bluetooth board share the same battery the noise is there.
Not sure how to get rid of that unfortunately.
Been trying to read up as much as possible but no clear solutions yet.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Sorry for the very late reply.
Been on a long business trip.
OK, no laughing now. This box should be considered a "proof of concept" and is by no means intended as the final build.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
As you can see it's very boominator-ish.
Love that design concept. Thanks Saturnus.
I'm still very happy with the sound quality and loudness of the box.
Think it's tuned well for all the types of music I play.
Picked up a Sure Bluetooth APT-X board when I was in Shanghai to add bluetooth capabilities the the box.
That board has some serious output gain.
Sounds great on moderate levels but I feel like the gain is way to high for this amp. It's easy to "overdrive" the amp which introduces nasty distortion and ear bleeding nice levels.
It also has some digital background noise that I haven't been able to get rid of.
If I run the board on a seperate powersupply it's dead quiet but as soon as the amp and bluetooth board share the same battery the noise is there.
Not sure how to get rid of that unfortunately.
Been trying to read up as much as possible but no clear solutions yet.
Any ideas would be appreciated.
Sorry to bring up an older thread. I'm interested in trying to build something like this. I don't really have the budget for the 4x 4fe32 drivers. Is there another driver, maybe in the $15 range that might suffice? I saw a 4" visaton full-range driver with fairly high efficiency that is very affordable, but I don't really know what other specs to consider that may or may not make this a good choice in this type of speaker. I'm not looking to impress any audiophiles. Just want a fun project to work on. From what I've been reading, the bipolar speaker design is a good way to go for a portable outdoor system. I'm not looking for enormous output either. This would be for background music at a picnic, camping trip, what have you. I have used some cheap, battery-powered portable speakers for this kind of thing in the past. Just about anything would be an improvement over those. Thanks for any ideas/advice.
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Just browsing through parts express I've come across the Tang Band W3-1053 SC and Faital 3FE25 that seem to have a lot of numbers in common with the faital 4FE32, though the Tang Band is lower efficiency.
The Visaton I mentioned above is an R10S. It's very efficient and very cheap, but now that I'm looking more closely, it has very high Qts so not really the right kind of speaker for a vented enclosure?
Please excuse my ignorance...
The Visaton I mentioned above is an R10S. It's very efficient and very cheap, but now that I'm looking more closely, it has very high Qts so not really the right kind of speaker for a vented enclosure?
Please excuse my ignorance...
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