You can use almost any 2.5in to 4in full range driver. The key ingredient here is the woofer. It needs to be wide band, as flat and smooth of a response as possible. It needs to go at least 2 octaves above the crossover point. For this speaker, I chose about 900Hz crossover. So it needs to go up to 3600Hz. If you pick 500Hz then only 2000Hz top bandwidth. This is needed of doing 1st order transient perfect XO.
There are very few alternatives, if any to the RS225-8. I haven’t really found one yet if trying to do a 900Hz crossover. I like this point because it lets the woofer handle more power where the critical mid bass is and this gives the sound a visceral punch.
There are very few alternatives, if any to the RS225-8. I haven’t really found one yet if trying to do a 900Hz crossover. I like this point because it lets the woofer handle more power where the critical mid bass is and this gives the sound a visceral punch.
And, the woof + its crossover need to be 6db down at crossover, then 12db down an octave away.
That is the tricky part.
Oh yea, then get baffle step in there somewhere !!!!!!
This is a brilliant design that is low sensirivity, but that allows you to try many different full ranges so long as you get the sensitivities to match. Granted the 3" stuff seems to be low 80db's anyway. And you need to balance dispersion with listening distance for your needs.
Looking at charts, the 10f has the same dispersion as my horn loaded morel dome, or enough for a 3 person couch at 7', comparatively much better than my 8" full range experience, 1 person 7' away, 2 maybe 3 at 12' away.
That is the tricky part.
Oh yea, then get baffle step in there somewhere !!!!!!
This is a brilliant design that is low sensirivity, but that allows you to try many different full ranges so long as you get the sensitivities to match. Granted the 3" stuff seems to be low 80db's anyway. And you need to balance dispersion with listening distance for your needs.
Looking at charts, the 10f has the same dispersion as my horn loaded morel dome, or enough for a 3 person couch at 7', comparatively much better than my 8" full range experience, 1 person 7' away, 2 maybe 3 at 12' away.
MAybe as a baffle step woofer, easier to do with its low flattish z curve. Sealed .66ft3 for f3 near 95hz, ported 1.4ft3 for f3 =57hz with 49hz tune. But add in a 4mh inductor (1.25 ohm) making f3 of 314hz pole, f3 would drop a bit ported but need larger box.
Oh yea, the driver has 94db spl. Can work nice as a 2 way 1,200hz steep crossover, but not on this forum !!!!!!!!!
Djk was looking to use this driver for pa stuff.
I had dual 4" bamboo in a box run in parallel with a large magnet cerwin vega (also run wide open). Together they worked well, but that was complete luck matching sensitivities and baffle step / woofers roll off.
Oh yea, the driver has 94db spl. Can work nice as a 2 way 1,200hz steep crossover, but not on this forum !!!!!!!!!
Djk was looking to use this driver for pa stuff.
I had dual 4" bamboo in a box run in parallel with a large magnet cerwin vega (also run wide open). Together they worked well, but that was complete luck matching sensitivities and baffle step / woofers roll off.
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hi xrk,
thank you for this nice sounding speaker design
i'm contemplating of build one for my main
listening room, question is
can i use these drivers
TC9F18-8 and SB Acoustics SB20PFC30-8 8'' Paper Cone Woofer instead of 10F/RS225 to achieve same level of performance using these drivers?
any input is appreciated
thanks
thank you for this nice sounding speaker design
i'm contemplating of build one for my main
listening room, question is
can i use these drivers
TC9F18-8 and SB Acoustics SB20PFC30-8 8'' Paper Cone Woofer instead of 10F/RS225 to achieve same level of performance using these drivers?
any input is appreciated
thanks
Hi Diyjay,
Short answer is, no - the critical driver that makes this speaker work with the existing crossover is the RS225-8. That is not to say you could not make your own brand new design with the SB20PFC30-8. But you would be starting from scratch with the crossover. I like how it is 90dB sensitive. The breakup seems pretty controlled. It is not as flat/smooth as the RS225 over 100Hz to 2kHz range. There is a dip at 800Hz right where the XO point is. So maybe it could work well for Harsch XO at 2khz, but that is not a FAST/WAW anymore.
http://www.madisound.com/library/stacks/SB-Acoustics_SB20PFC30-8_Rev-1.pdf
Short answer is, no - the critical driver that makes this speaker work with the existing crossover is the RS225-8. That is not to say you could not make your own brand new design with the SB20PFC30-8. But you would be starting from scratch with the crossover. I like how it is 90dB sensitive. The breakup seems pretty controlled. It is not as flat/smooth as the RS225 over 100Hz to 2kHz range. There is a dip at 800Hz right where the XO point is. So maybe it could work well for Harsch XO at 2khz, but that is not a FAST/WAW anymore.
http://www.madisound.com/library/stacks/SB-Acoustics_SB20PFC30-8_Rev-1.pdf
Dear XRK and Perceval, I moved this question, not to hijack a tread...
What is your opinion about the 4 of SBA drivers, which are pretty similar is specs:
61/2” SATORI MW16P-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MR16P-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MW16PNW-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MR16PNW-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
Also, which one of them may be suitable for of Dayton? Price in EU is similar or even better for SBA drivers.
I am long time lurker on this thread, and want to build smth similar with cheap passive XO crossed a bit higher than typical WAW/FAST, may be at 900-1000Hz. Probably SBA drivers will be more cost effective (in my place). I want to make it as simple XO as I can as this will be my first 2way build. Of course "simple" from the ones which sound right
Also, if this is not a WAW/FAST anymore, but like a normal 2-way - it is ok too, as long as it sounds good.
Thank you.
What is your opinion about the 4 of SBA drivers, which are pretty similar is specs:
61/2” SATORI MW16P-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MR16P-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MW16PNW-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
61/2” SATORI MR16PNW-8 / Paper – Sbacoustics
Also, which one of them may be suitable for of Dayton? Price in EU is similar or even better for SBA drivers.
I am long time lurker on this thread, and want to build smth similar with cheap passive XO crossed a bit higher than typical WAW/FAST, may be at 900-1000Hz. Probably SBA drivers will be more cost effective (in my place). I want to make it as simple XO as I can as this will be my first 2way build. Of course "simple" from the ones which sound right
Also, if this is not a WAW/FAST anymore, but like a normal 2-way - it is ok too, as long as it sounds good.
Thank you.
Adjust the R1 resistor to smaller value - about 2.2ohm to 3.3ohm. The TC9 FD is about 2dB less sensitive than 10F. But adjust to taste.
Most of the power goes to the RS225 - just an inductor straight through. For the 10F, you can see heavy 4.7ohm/4.7ohm attenuator to knock of down from 87dB to 82dB and 1st order high passed at 900Hz. I don’t do it often but the RS225 will hit Xmax before the 10F. With the TL though I think cone movement is less than sealed for same SPL. I have not had a problem bottoming out the RS225 when played way louder than I should be hearing them.
The max continuous power input to the speaker is about 70w or so can be tolerated. I generally listen no louder than 30w to 40w. Most average loud listening is 12w to 20w but peaks up to 40w. You need a 40w amp minimum.
The max continuous power input to the speaker is about 70w or so can be tolerated. I generally listen no louder than 30w to 40w. Most average loud listening is 12w to 20w but peaks up to 40w. You need a 40w amp minimum.
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The reason I ask, is because I have 4 of the RS225's. I have designed a T-line which will house 2 for each channel. I will use separate amps to control the balance. Same passive crossover, but the LP will adjusted for 4 ohm instead of 8. I will be building separate cabs, 8424 on top about 2.3" back.
This modular approach will allow for many substitutions on top of the T-lines. Wolf's Stance speaker (RS125 + Beston tweeter) is truly spectacular, and want to try that on top too. Along with many others.
But I think the 4 x RS225 is provide a spectacular foundation for whatever we try.
For the pair of RS225-8's I would use:
2mh (instead of 4mh) and double the zobel via simple parallel of the existing values.
For the upper I would just use the 2uf and 10ohm zobel
nix the attenuation resistors, level controlled by the amp
and also nix the 61uf but effectively replace with an appropriate sized cap in front of the amp that drives the 8424.. The -3db is 600hz? Can you confirm that? Thanks, I have to get on this while the weather is nice in Ontario.
I did some calculations.
61uf into a load of approx 7.3 ohms, which is the driver plus the effect of the attenuating resistors, results in a -3db point of around 360hz
You would only need about 24uf to have a -3db point of 900hz.
Adding in the acoustic response you might be at 900hz, but electrically is much lower.