10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor

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I have a few questions about box assembly for this project. Mainly the "dagger" part that goes with one of the drivers. I see where it gives the dimensions of the parts for the dagger, but no construction/attachment particulars.

If there is another thread explaining this, I've missed it. Any help here would be greatly appreciated! I'm sure it is somewhere based on the numbers of those who are building.

I also have questions about the materials used and where they are obtained. The thread explains the plywood reinforcement, (a type of flooring) but a little unclear on the types of foam core, i.e. regular foam core vs. pink. I also see reference that some panels are doubled up.

As far as size, I like the dimensions X has used, might later try the floor standing version as well.

Again, thanks for any help along these lines1

Russellc
 
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The latest wooden dagger is a 5 sided pyramid about 11in tall. Make trial pieces out of cardboard to check for fit (clearance around driver basket and back of box) then make out of thin plywood. However, it seems easy way is to use a soccer sports cone pylon - links for the particular one from Amazon (others work too) are in thread. Look at Vunce’s latest build it’s there.

I used 1in pink XPS and reinforced baffle with 3/16in ply. Make sure you add internal XPS brace to prevent box from “breathing” under pressure of driver. Dagger needs to be airtight relative to main chamber.

Hope that helps.
 
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The latest wooden dagger is a 5 sided pyramid about 11in tall. Make trial pieces out of cardboard to check for fit (clearance around driver basket and back of box) then make out of thin plywood. However, it seems easy way is to use a soccer sports cone pylon - links for the particular one from Amazon (others work too) are in thread. Look at Vunce’s latest build it’s there.

I used 1in pink XPS and reinforced baffle with 3/16in ply. Make sure you add internal XPS brace to prevent box from “breathing” under pressure of driver. Dagger needs to be airtight relative to main chamber.

Hope that helps.

It helps a lot. I will continue with the thread. How is dagger attached to back of driver? (well, inside of cabinet) Is it air tight, or just setting behind the opening?

Thanks again.

Russellc
 
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Industrial adhesive (PL premium, Liquid Nails (non VOC), caulking, etc) if using a plastic sports pylon. Or wood glue if using wood. But doesn’t hurt to deal with bead of caulking on all seams plus the hole where wire comes through. You will know if there is an air leak after it is built if you push on the woofer cone and the full range cone moves out.
 
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It’s been almost 1 week living with my new FAST TL’s and during this break-in period, there has indeed been improvement. The low bass has extended and tightened up. I think this can be attributed to the RS225 driver loosening up but also the foam cabinet “curing”. In my feverish haste to listen to the TL’s in stereo, the adhesive was still a bit rubbery, it was strong enough to handle the cabinets but was still pliable. After a couple of days the PL300 adhesive hardened which made the cabinets very solid (for foam :D).
The Scanspeak 10F has opened up and the TL’s disappear. When seated, if you closed your eyes you would not be able to pick the placement of the TL’s. The sound is evenly across the front of the room. When standing, it’s easier to pick them out. Using them for A/V they are pinpoint accurate with on screen vocals and sound effects, offscreen sounds are limited only by the adjacent walls. Hey X, what about a center channel version, HeHe!
One of the tweaks I wanted to play around with was rolling XO capacitors, but not get crazy with price. The initial setup used 12 paralleled 5uF polycarbonate film caps for the 60uF value. All my thoughts so far were based on that setup. Tonight I swapped them out for a single 60uF polypropylene film cap made by ASC. I’ll give this some listening time.
This speaker is extremely satisfying, for what these cost to build I think every household should have a pair, Haha!!! :D

Hi Vunce,
Now that you have had these TLs for a longer amount of time and listened to them with the XO on the PCBs with premium components - do you have any more listening impressions? Did the premium caps and XO board make things even better? I am debating whether or not to pull my speakers apart to install the new XO boards. Also, I think you have added a Miflex bypass cap by now per Maty’s recommendation. Newfound joy?
Thanks,
X
 
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Hi X,
I ended up populating the XO pcb’s with the ASC 60uF bypassed with a Mundorf .47uF Supreme S/O cap. I know, I originally said I was going “frugal” with cap choices, but I already had the Mundorf’s sitting in a bin, so why not use them :)
As much as I tried to resist the thought, the Supreme’s did make a slight improvement in sound. Reviewing speakers and electronics is so subjective and quite difficult for me to do, but the as-built XO has my TL’s singing so well it’s very hard to stop listening. I was late for work every morning this past week because I had to get my “fix” of FAST TL’s to start my day :D
I did get a pair of Miflex KPCU-01 caps that Maty recommended. Now, should I add it to the ASC and Mundorf combo or swap the Mundorf for the MiFlex? I’m going to replace the Solen 4.7uF for a correct value Sonicap Gen I 4.4uF (C111/112) also.
 

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Hi Vunce,
Great to hear that the sound is so good, it’s addictive. I have the same problem getting my fix before retiring for the night. Often find myself staying up way to late just to listen to a few more tracks (never a few more but maybe 12 more!):)
So expensive caps do make a difference.
Thanks for the feedback! What’s your timeline for making wooden TL’s now that these XPS pathfinders have proven the speaker is good?
 
I would probably put the kpcu's in. I've been using those caps everywhere I can, phono stage, amplifiers, line stage and crossovers. They are fantastic caps in my subjective as hell opinion.

For larger values, you should try the kpal, the aluminum foil version. I used 2.2uF kpal's in a recent tube phono build, and I am very pleased with them. The KPAL's are much less expensive than the KPCU caps in higher values.

The kpal's were ~$30 USD each, compared to ~$130 USD each for the KPCUs... iirc.

Cheers,
Gable
 
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Thanks for the feedback! What’s your timeline for making wooden TL’s now that these XPS pathfinders have proven the speaker is good?

Funny you should mention that, I was just going over some cabinet options with the wifey this morning.
I will use 3/4” MDF for the cabinet and paint it black, the baffle will be a solid wood maybe curly maple or walnut?

Btw, isn’t it a given that we all stay up way too late from our audio creations :D :yawn:
 

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I will use 3/4” MDF for the cabinet and paint it black, the baffle will be a solid wood maybe curly maple or walnut?

I like black Duratex baffles for some reason (black seems to fit with a lot of decor). Maybe curly maple or walnut always looks beautiful on the front if you are going with wood. Depends if you want a light color (maple) or darker coloer (walnut).
 
Sorry, I may have given you some wrong figures here off the top of my head. The RS225-4 is 4ohms so the coil value actually worked out well to go to 2mH (cheaper and lighter). I did not have the FRD/ZMA files for the TC9 on hand so used the RS100-8 as a surrogate. You, could of course build one with the RS100-8 and it would sound quite nice.

Here is the revised schematic for an RS225-4 and a RS100-8 midtweeter, I have already subtracted -5dB from the factory FRD file (which assumes a very large baffle). So look like overall efficiency is a true 84.5dB or thereabouts. Not bad.

Here is XO schematic:
660274d1517604025-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor-rs100-8-rs22-4-fast-500hz-transient-perfect-xo-jpg


Here is predicted FR:
660275d1517604025-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor-rs100-8-rs22-4-fast-500hz-transient-perfect-xo-fr-jpg


Here is predicted electrical impedance and phase as seen by amp:
660276d1517604025-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor-rs100-8-rs22-4-fast-500hz-transient-perfect-xo-phase-jpg


Here is predicted Step Response with tweeter having a 0.75in setback:
660277d1517604025-10f-8424-rs225-8-fast-waw-ref-monitor-rs100-8-rs22-4-fast-500hz-transient-perfect-xo-step-jpg


Byrtt will probably be able to do a better job at helping us to get the acoustic phase flatter. But the main thing is that you need a 2mH coil not 8mH!

Here is the coil I used for the sim:
Jantzen Audio 2.0mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductor Crossover Coil

For the 100uF cap, use two 50uF film in oil motor run caps in parallel, or two 220uF 100V electrolytics connected -+/+- or +-/-+ to act as non-polar.

Cheers,
X

This is a very interesting post, I was just trying to figure out what to do with the TEN RS225-4 i have sitting on a shelf collecting dust.
 
I did a TMM before- for my five theater speakers and it was not good. Bass was awesome but mid and highs blew with the RST28-F so i threw them on a shelf to collect dust. Im rebuilding my Seven Home theater speakers now- Cant decide on a final build- I know with the RST28 it sounds like poo poo and needs umteen million dollars in XO to make it half way decent.