Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th April 2015, 06:37 PM   #21
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
BYRTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
To bring GD as low as possible you right the fast one is get rid of the electric 27Hz HP filter in miniDSP and should give approx. 6,5mS at 40Hz, and if recordings is free of low frequency rumble it should be no problem. Will probably end up around having 8-10mS delay at 40 Hz.

Present setup is minimum phase domain all over and the tools for GD at low frequency seems:

Electric linkwitz transform, the more low we transform the lower or less GD we get, but trade off is the higher gain needed the lower we like to transform, the actual one from 52Hz down to 30Hz takes out 9,5dB SPL in BW Q config.

Electric a fair high value capasitor can be used for woofer and bring some small better GD timing but don't think these excellent drivers and setup deserve a cap that most often has own signature and not being 100% transparent.

Electric one giving only a small number is go from the 350Hz 2.order XO to 1.order 500-700Hz and as example at 600Hz XO will gain 0,630mS less GD at 40Hz.

Acoustic volume tricks is also possible but think alignment is probably carefully set at a right point where Xmax load is in control.

To get better measured GD timing than about 10mS at 40Hz think next step is FIR filters but they will cost delay between real time at the track played and the sound into room.

Last edited by BYRTT; 27th April 2015 at 06:41 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 06:47 PM   #22
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
Got Foam?
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Byrtt,
Thanks for the summary. I will try the no HPF at 27Hz. Next is 1st order XO but that seems like it may cause HD to rise as movement of the 10F will not be as controlled.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:04 PM   #23
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
diyAudio Member
 
BYRTT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Welcome xrk971,
For info here is FR and GD for a linkwitz transform from BW Q at 52Hz to BW Q at 30HZ. The fun thing is from 500Hz down to 39Hz timing is faster than real time .
Attached Images
File Type: png FR.png (37.3 KB, 1336 views)
File Type: png GD.png (56.2 KB, 1336 views)
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:05 PM   #24
irribeo is offline irribeo  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
0:24s and 0:25s in clip is remarkable clearer/"easier to follow" than on my cd. Mono could be reason too, but it had me listening a couple of times
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:11 PM   #25
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
Got Foam?
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Quote:
Originally Posted by BYRTT View Post
Welcome xrk971,
For info here is FR and GD for a linkwitz transform from BW Q at 52Hz to BW Q at 30HZ. The fun thing is from 500Hz down to 39Hz timing is faster than real time .
Funny thing, the shape of the curve reminds me of the paradox of quantum tunneling and superluminal speed of particle penetration through a quantum barrier. Apparently, this is not any violation of physics...

Alternate View Column AV-75

So we hear the music before it happens
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:15 PM   #26
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
wesayso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
If I were in your shoes I'd be building the second enclosure by now .
The 10F might surprise you with 6 dB/Oct filters, at least if I remember the distortion graphs right. Just try it and measure... The roll off from the enclosure the 10F is in will help to control it I guess.
FIR filters would be fun to try too! But first get that other cabinet ready!
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:17 PM   #27
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
Got Foam?
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Quote:
Originally Posted by irribeo View Post
0:24s and 0:25s in clip is remarkable clearer/"easier to follow" than on my cd. Mono could be reason too, but it had me listening a couple of times
I wonder why that might be? I am playing from a CD made from 96kHz of a .wav file of high res recording. Still, playing from a CD through analog output which makes it defacto 44.1kHz 16-bit material.

I am listening to the 24-25 second spot and hear what you are referring to as some low level detail of a rapid drum rattle sound. Cool.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:22 PM   #28
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Very kool new project x. The 10F seems to be a superb driver, and a FAST like this is the ideal implementation for it.

Since someone is going to ask eventually, allow me... How would you compare the 10F to your fave Vifa TC9FD WRT realism and detail? The sample sounded quite good, but near the limits what will be masked by the signal chain electronics and mp3 compression.

RE the crossover: if you're not getting a deep null with a normal phase connection and 2nd order, it's not going to have perfect phase matching with typical reverse connection either. 3rd order Bessel is worth a try. 1st order acoustic is my favorite if feasible. It just sounds real. The downsides are lobing, SPL limitations from excursion limits, and the wide bandwidth needed from both drivers, not to mention any corrections needed to fix driver issues beyond the xover knee. You'd probably need to cross at ~500+, and ideally have flat response for two octaves on both sides of that. IOW the woofer to 2k and the 10f to 125.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:31 PM   #29
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
Got Foam?
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
If I were in your shoes I'd be building the second enclosure by now .
The 10F might surprise you with 6 dB/Oct filters, at least if I remember the distortion graphs right. Just try it and measure... The roll off from the enclosure the 10F is in will help to control it I guess.
FIR filters would be fun to try too! But first get that other cabinet ready!
You are right about the second box! No second thoughts here - just need to find time. Sureply baffle is cutout already. Need to buy one more 2ftx2ft pink foam panel as my initial estimates of materials needed was off. Btw, I use lots of pink Fiberglas stuffing - how apropos.

I can't wait to hear this in stereo, and also maybe to get a more powerful amp than 50 watts/ch to really experience the kick. Btw, this is one of the few speakers I have messed with (aside from my big bass horn) that is able to play the extreme bass line of Suzanne Vega's "Headshots" without distorting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th April 2015, 07:37 PM   #30
irribeo is offline irribeo  Netherlands
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
yes that is what I meant, my english dictionary is very very limited, with hands and feet/timecode I can communicate
  Reply With Quote

Reply


10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref MonitorHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Nautaloss Ref Monitor xrk971 Full Range 673 12th November 2018 05:42 AM
Scan-Speak Discovery 10F/4424G / 10F/8424G BHTX Full Range 12 25th January 2017 09:32 PM
Dayton RS225-4 & Peerless SLS 8 in woofers, Linaeum, Coaxial omarmipi Swap Meet 9 28th November 2006 05:10 PM
T-Line for Dayton Ref 8" (RS225) dunderchief Multi-Way 20 7th November 2006 08:31 AM
FS: Aurum Cantus G2si Ribbon tweeter (pair) *used* & Dayton 5" ref midwoofer mmdb Swap Meet 1 29th April 2005 09:32 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 12:27 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki