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10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
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Old 19th October 2018, 11:00 PM   #1371
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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Member «Gornir» did some measurements a while back, for anterior model revisions (latest i found was 2017 revision).

In any case, they LOOK «ok» within 45 degrees listening position. Beyond that, dips start to appear. But dips are less annoying than peaks, in my opinion, and it still extends to or near 20khz, contrary to the discovery,on paper. Also, i listen(end) to headphones with worse overall response than these which strenghts nevertheless made up for the downsides. In any case, i believe the particularity of the design, what makes it unique is not using a midrange/midwoofer to replace a tweeter, but to make it less necessary, and ending up with a sort of «super composite fullrange» speaker. But the strong point of the discovery midrange is that it also behaves like a good tweeter it seems, additionally!

SB Acoustics Satori MW16P-4 Measurements!

www.audioexcite.com >> SB Acoustics “Satori” MW16P-4
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Last edited by pidesd; 19th October 2018 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 21st October 2018, 09:57 PM   #1372
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Jeshi did a lot of work with the Satori MW16 in this thread:
EVA foam for performance speaker enclosures

She used it with an RS28F dome tweeter though. It certainly provides enough bass for the low end in any case.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 02:17 AM   #1373
BYRTT is online now BYRTT  Denmark
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Thanks those links pidesd and xrk971, think for me it looks a very good candidate for my electric guitar setup : )

For our eyes probably scaling ratios means alot so as a experiment traced their curves so as to compare closer into same ratio and at same added the theoretical diameter curves for off axis 30º and 60º for a pure piston diameter 68mm and 126mm.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 07:51 PM   #1374
pidesd is offline pidesd  Canada
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byrtt,

for guitar duty....maybe. I would guess it would give a very unique sound...or maybe parallel 25 of ps95/tc9fd10/... not THAT a crazy idea, i think

xrk971,

Thanks for the link. I will look for what have been done before with this driver. it seems as a complete fullrange, it may not be a versatile solution. Crossing with a tweeter seems better and is more popular, probably for a reason. From the graph, the driver seems indeed to suffer from directivity: «tilt your head to the left and and instrument disappear» kind of problem.

What i want in the first place, is to have a competitor to my headphones ( modded hd595 and hd650). Not that i hate, them, but «au contraire», i'm always reaching for them instead of the axiom m3 bookshelves that are gathering dust, and for movies, headphones are not optimal. They are good for what i payed (axiom), but they lack detail a bit overall and the midrange is just unresolving. Electric guitars, violin, trumpets are Just plain unexciting. The hd595 wired properly are just a steal (75$ or so used), especially amped....much better than their sucessors (hd598) .

I also stumbled across your poll thread that compares many midranges...lots of info there....a diy budgeter's dream!

What i might end up doing is get something like tg9fd to test the water, and if i'm impressed, keep going and build your «ref monitor», and if left on my appetite, au contraire, i could save for the satori (or something similar) +tweeter solution.

in any case, thanks may times for you contribution: i'm learning a lot!
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Last edited by pidesd; 22nd October 2018 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 08:47 PM   #1375
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Hi Pidesd,
Try the Faital Pro 3FE25-16 lots of nice detail. I am running them in parallel in a Karlsonator and they sound very nice. I love headphones too.

Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 22nd October 2018, 11:35 PM   #1376
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Is the faital really that different from say tc9fd10...? Does the detail comes from better extended/boosted hi-freq. response or is it simply more revealing with reverb and stuff? the attractive 16 ohm spec should be easier on the amp, that is for sure.

i think it may be wiser to get a more «consensual» driver first like the one i just mentioned, if not just to have one to compare others too, to see if i get the «bite» and then «upgrade» toward something i like more. the tc9fd10, for instance, is readily available at store next to me. The fiberglass version also i can get for cheap from USA.

Maybe i could order one driver of each (faital+tc/tg9fd)...to be honest i listened to the clips in the tests with rounds you did and could't hear a lot of differences between the drivers, except for frequency response. The better quality clip i heard was the one in the early pages of the present thread («spanish harlem» song).

(If ever you are tired of discussing differences i would understand...anyway most are so cheap it's better to evaluate in person)
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Last edited by pidesd; 22nd October 2018 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 12:19 AM   #1377
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If you look at the graph of the TC9FD and its cousins TG9/10F/etc they all fall off around 18kHz. The response curve for the 3FE25-8 actually goes past 20kHz. Where this helps is in the attack and transients rather than actually hearing notes above 20kHz. It does sound like it goes higher though.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 02:51 PM   #1378
BYRTT is online now BYRTT  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
If you look at the graph of the TC9FD and its cousins TG9/10F/etc they all fall off around 18kHz. The response curve for the 3FE25-8 actually goes past 20kHz. Where this helps is in the attack and transients rather than actually hearing notes above 20kHz. It does sound like it goes higher though.
Hi X can you take a new look at case or comment because cant ignore there looks to be something is off into this public statements translate how real objective data is interpreted to subjective statements, know below 3FE22-16 is not 100% exactly same as 3FE25-8 but it has nearly a same response into public factory datasheet as 3FE25-8 also cone/frame/dustcap/surround have semilarity.

Now at Faital Pro graph ratios we add 10F factory graph and also take TC9 verse 3FE22-16 from over at comparison thread offset below, these diameters is all into break up area and fall off but how is Faital stated to go past 20kHz if TC9 plus 10F is not.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-1000-png

At these ratios lets add a higher reach curve for TC9 from over ZAPP plus a smooth BW2 20kHz textbook target curve, looks its low cost TC9 that is overall winner if we talk smooth and high reach native out of box response.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-1001-png

It should be possible find out what one or another driver has the real world higest response reach even graphs are cut up there because of rate, zoom into small detailed numbers for IR at zero crossing line where the wider it goes there the slower it is relative to the other up higher.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-1002-png
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Old 23rd October 2018, 05:27 PM   #1379
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Hi Byrtt,
Thanks for showing the detailed comparisons. The Zaph extended data looks great, With you side by side comparisons, maybe the difference is not all that great - and I love the sound of the TC9FD, don't get me wrong as I have been using that from day 1 on 3 dozen projects. If we look at your detailed graphs, we can see that the 3FE22-16 has about 4dB more at 20kHz, and maybe it is also due to its higher sensitivity rated at 90dB at 1w/1m. It sounds qualitatively to have more top end to my ears. Albeit, not as smooth of a performer as the TC9FD overall.

Here is your data (which I think you are using 3FE22-16):
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-3fe22-vs-tc9-jpg

And here is 3FE25-16 (different motor and different T/S parameters with Qts of 0.82 so not really the same driver) - its response at 20kHz is even a bit higher, so maybe even +5dB more at 20kHz?:
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-3fe25-16-fr-png

But these are all very minor differences. I can say that the 0.53x Karlsonator with dual TC9FD's sounds fantastic, from my memory.
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Last edited by xrk971; 23rd October 2018 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 23rd October 2018, 09:59 PM   #1380
BYRTT is online now BYRTT  Denmark
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Hi X,

Thanks looking case again, think it points we should conclude if highest reach is supposed help in the attack and transients rather than actually hearing notes above 20kHz it should be heard better in a TC9 domain then, and if Faitals happen is sensed a higher reach it must be either their hotter rising response or peaks as frq goes up, included 3FE25-16 together 3FE22-16 from their datasheets and they close viewed into these ratio of axis numbers, below that look at 3FE22-16 from your own measurement setup from comparison thread where it falls off much steeper than TC9 indicating TC9 is not only the smoothest also its superior in highest reach that we see better into ZAPP graph in previous post.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor-1000-png
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Last edited by BYRTT; 23rd October 2018 at 10:06 PM.
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