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10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
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Old 12th October 2018, 04:25 PM   #1361
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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In the easiest terms I can find, the sound from a horn seems "shot" at me and to my ears feels unnatural.

The sound from OB irradiates, and is more pleasing to me.

As a disclaimer, I've never heard a Bushmeister style point source horn... I can only extrapolate from previous listenings where horns were involved, mostly Klipsch, so my assumption could be flawed.
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Old 12th October 2018, 04:58 PM   #1362
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor
Quote:
Originally Posted by perceval View Post
I'm not a huge fan of the "horn" sound. Completely the opposite, I prefer OBs.
But, I agree that a dual 8s with a FR on the horn would probably be good... just not the sound I'm looking for...
What is horn sound really then my bet is that our eyes rule out too much here and makes us make conclusions that sometimes is bit off in that real acoustics behavour into a specific room can be a completely wild animal, admit myself through life also have build up a kind of signature about a horn sound but on the other hand think if we for example heard one of the Summa's or M2 we would be surprised and never notice. Even it can sound i'm after you here message is really meant as friendly discussion and to open our human minds to start more thinking, for example when you say "its not the sound i'm looking for and prefer OB" well for me that sounds as you given up on find the scheme of that wild acoustic animal into your room and thame it, instead you let loose two more wild animals read OB's and enjoy that over a more or less limited period until one day it gets tiresome and clear its not really a reference but rather a interesting distortion signature addon compared to most off the shelf speakers.

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Originally Posted by perceval View Post
...Hmmm... I don't think the tweeters are 3" back in there.
Its physical sizes looks nothing about two big RS225 woofers and also XO slope is probably nothing about a 1st order one so it needs other numbers

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Originally Posted by perceval View Post
At first, I liked the air that they brought to the system, but after more listening sessions, they are starting to annoy me with some sibilance. I'll try to EQ out a bit between 5-8kHz, see if that helps.
Using a tweeter verse a small diameter fullranger then can think of two added distortions will emediately punish system, first one is phase distortion from XO slope that will change timing or line up of hamonics relative to ground tone and second is power response inside XO region is ruined because physical size and spacing of real world drivers makes it impossible to get any XO points above say 1kHz not look like a dispersion mess seen in simulations. One can say that using a supertweeter above say 6kHz and up then forget about XO point phase distortion because from ground bandwidth of a speaker cannot produce square waves more than 6kHz area and human ear is said to be less sensitive for phase distortion the higher the frq but still physical spacing of summing bands is a dispersion mess so that only above that mess tweeter will acoustic take over with its superior performance and there really is not much program and SPL in a recording up there.

Now i know you own relative expensive FAB filter and in past hinted this HF trick before that can help repair power response into room up high for a beaming small fullranger verse a real tweeter. Think we can agree that we sense there needs to be a high shelve filter boost somewhere so that room reflections gets bit brighter and natural for a small fullranger (dull room power response) verse a real tweeter but when we do it down the road it gets tiresome and bit unnatural, think culprit is in phase domain we do the reverse distortion that of a real XO filter in we push timing in HF to be slower and again distort original timing or line up of hamonics relative to ground tone, therefor that high shelve filter boost somewhere needs to be a linear phase boost so that it doesn't change timing of original recording but adds a lift in HF amplitude only (not phase) to repair power response error into room for our midtweet fullranger. Below is my own FAB filter linear phase high shelve filter boost that makes a 10F or TC9 more or less sound natural at my specific room, set it to "Linear phase" and "Max" as highlighted in red inside your player. Recipe is first tune your system and house curve so that when standing within 1-1,5 meter of speaker where direct sound will rule it shall sound like a dream, now go to different listening positions or sweet spot and gently dial in some high shelve filter boost schemes until tonality sounds a bit like standing 1-1,5 meter from speaker system, it probably can't be as good as within 1-1,5 meter but the tonality will guide when its too much or less. From now on remember not listen pure on axis because its bit too hot there but timing is right because we use linear phase amplitude boost without touching time domain, myself have constantly a old ECM8000 mic to hang 10cm in front of 10F so that hot beam is isolated behind it or spread around it if one momentary happen to be positioned on axis.
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Last edited by BYRTT; 12th October 2018 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 13th October 2018, 02:23 AM   #1363
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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You've been busy around the forum lately Byrtt!

Thanks for your insights.

I might get tired of OB wild animals one day... but not yet! I'm still riding that wave and enjoying it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BYRTT View Post
Its physical sizes looks nothing about two big RS225 woofers and also XO slope is probably nothing about a 1st order one so it needs other numbers
Close. The woofers in the CP-777 are 7". And yes, probably not 1st order. They mention d"Appolito.

I'll need coffee first before I continue reading your post, so, off to my coffee machine now!
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