Hmmm... if the rest of the line from Dayton leaves Usher as well, it will mean trouble for them.
They put all their eggs into the Dayton basket, and didn't bother updating anything from their own line in at least 15 years.
That will be a lot of work to try and regain some of the momentum they had many years ago.
If China/Chinese factories wanted to take over the Dayton line up, I'm sure they offered a ridiculously low manufacturing price to Dayton.
Too bad, that will probably mean that the Dayton stuff will undergo a serious drop in quality.
They put all their eggs into the Dayton basket, and didn't bother updating anything from their own line in at least 15 years.
That will be a lot of work to try and regain some of the momentum they had many years ago.
If China/Chinese factories wanted to take over the Dayton line up, I'm sure they offered a ridiculously low manufacturing price to Dayton.
Too bad, that will probably mean that the Dayton stuff will undergo a serious drop in quality.
Well, Dayton are essentially Parts Express's 'house brand', so in that sense I'm not sure it matters who the OEM is, except whether that OEM owns or holds the design details and / or rights to a given product and can maintain good QC.
I'm going by fallible memory, so if somebody can correct please do, but if the reports I recall were correct, PE got caught on the hop by something going wrong at Usher, and found themselves unable to contact the factory, with the RS28 being the main hit. This is a handful of years back remember, so circumstances may have changed / reverted / whatever, and other units were not necessarily affected in the same way. As far as the RS28 was concerned though, at the time cue rapid work to develop a new model as quickly as possible. If that was indeed so, they did well -but the tweeters aren't necessarily an advance on their predecessors, or even quite of the same level. Matter of opinion. However, I don't want to take X's thread any futher OT (sorry about that), so probably best left there. If you want a more accurate lowdown, the guys over on PE's Techtalk forum are the ones to ask. As noted, I'm going by memory only, and may have got it wrong -I didn't pay much attention at the time because I'm UK based, and once shipping, taxes etc. are factored in, Dayton products generally end up costing significantly more than they do in the US, so their value advantage tends to be lost. Occasional exceptions, but you have to wait for them.
I'm going by fallible memory, so if somebody can correct please do, but if the reports I recall were correct, PE got caught on the hop by something going wrong at Usher, and found themselves unable to contact the factory, with the RS28 being the main hit. This is a handful of years back remember, so circumstances may have changed / reverted / whatever, and other units were not necessarily affected in the same way. As far as the RS28 was concerned though, at the time cue rapid work to develop a new model as quickly as possible. If that was indeed so, they did well -but the tweeters aren't necessarily an advance on their predecessors, or even quite of the same level. Matter of opinion. However, I don't want to take X's thread any futher OT (sorry about that), so probably best left there. If you want a more accurate lowdown, the guys over on PE's Techtalk forum are the ones to ask. As noted, I'm going by memory only, and may have got it wrong -I didn't pay much attention at the time because I'm UK based, and once shipping, taxes etc. are factored in, Dayton products generally end up costing significantly more than they do in the US, so their value advantage tends to be lost. Occasional exceptions, but you have to wait for them.
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Yes, it’s a ground breaking driver. Clean like a small 3in midrange in the mids and moves air like an 8in in the bass. It has no cone breakup. Not sure how they managed that. I noticed the cone has what looks like a concentric paper cone behind a paper cone box girder construction. That makes it stiff and pistonic yet light.
New TL design is all in CAD now.
New TL design is all in CAD now.
Sorry for the OT post about the Purifi PTT6.5 TL. Only thing common is that it’s a TL and transient perfect. I’ll take questions on the PTT6.5 over on the other thread:
Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
Simple Passive Harsch XO Using PTT6.5 and RS28F in a Waveguide
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This speaker is not light for a speaker of this size, actually it is quite heavy; moving mass is more than twice the moving mass of for example a Scanspeak 18W/4424 which has the same Sd (26 gr. vs 11 gr.) .
So it is mass loaded for treble, roll-off by nature.
Like any other cone of comparable material and construction, it does break up, though in a very controlled way.
When reading their philosophy you will understand why they do it this way.
18W/4424
Really?
Breakup mode around 4 kHz is actually some 2 db....
This is very benign behaviour as can be expected from a non-stiff cone.
For real severe breakup modes you'd have to check aluminum or ceramic cones.
Really?
Breakup mode around 4 kHz is actually some 2 db....
This is very benign behaviour as can be expected from a non-stiff cone.
For real severe breakup modes you'd have to check aluminum or ceramic cones.
Attachments
I finally finished the prototype of my version based on your 10F/RS225.
Like I mentioned, I really like SBA, and I had a feeling their racetrack driver could be interesting. The sims showed potential.
Right now, it's only the woofer in the line. For fun, I added a tweeter on top of the enclosure, with just a 2uF cap on it. It needs a little padding but there's promising results!
So, I'll be testing the setup with a tweeter, the SB65 and the B80.
We'll see who wins!
FR at 1m, FR at 2.5m (listening position) to account for the port and room gain, impulse and step, and finally distortion.
Like I mentioned, I really like SBA, and I had a feeling their racetrack driver could be interesting. The sims showed potential.
Right now, it's only the woofer in the line. For fun, I added a tweeter on top of the enclosure, with just a 2uF cap on it. It needs a little padding but there's promising results!
So, I'll be testing the setup with a tweeter, the SB65 and the B80.
We'll see who wins!
FR at 1m, FR at 2.5m (listening position) to account for the port and room gain, impulse and step, and finally distortion.
Attachments
Nice work, Perceval. Do you have a measured crossover plot? How is the phase and step response behaving? This is a 1st order or Harsch XO?
Step and impulse on the 3rd graph.
This is the woofer running free and only a cap on the tweeter, in phase.
It was just for fun,but surprised me.
Apologies if this has been asked before but......
Anyone tries a WAW using the 10f and an rss210hf-4.
Modelling it using an active crossover it looks pretty good in a 35l BR box with a 4th Order Butterworth low pass and 2nd order Butterworth high pass at around 350hz. Add in a bit of time delay, drop the gain and a high pass negative shelf on the 10f and it looks like it will play flat from 30hz up to 16khz (using published data only) Phase looks consistent from 300-600hz as well with a pretty flat minimum phase around 0. The only downside I can see is the low sensitivity around 83db/w/m.
Thoughts?
Also, would adding a Fountek Neocd1.0 from say 6khz upwards add anything to the 10f or is that ok right up past 15khz?
Anyone tries a WAW using the 10f and an rss210hf-4.
Modelling it using an active crossover it looks pretty good in a 35l BR box with a 4th Order Butterworth low pass and 2nd order Butterworth high pass at around 350hz. Add in a bit of time delay, drop the gain and a high pass negative shelf on the 10f and it looks like it will play flat from 30hz up to 16khz (using published data only) Phase looks consistent from 300-600hz as well with a pretty flat minimum phase around 0. The only downside I can see is the low sensitivity around 83db/w/m.
Thoughts?
Also, would adding a Fountek Neocd1.0 from say 6khz upwards add anything to the 10f or is that ok right up past 15khz?
Hi Ugg,
That’s a subwoofer and it probably will work with the higher order XO’s you suggest - but you would be missing out on the magic of the transient perfect 1st order crossover. Moreover, being less sensitive and losing another 5db baffle step loss, you are 80dB sensitivity, down another 2.5dB from the RS225. The star of the show is the RS225-8. Almost any 3-4in full range could be used for the wide band or full range here as long as its is relatively flat in response to allow a 1st order XO.
The RSS210HF has a very sharp peak at 4.5kHz. That’s going to show up in the very audible 2.25kHz range as a subharmonic distortion in an audible region unless the XO is steep and well below 1kHz.
That’s a subwoofer and it probably will work with the higher order XO’s you suggest - but you would be missing out on the magic of the transient perfect 1st order crossover. Moreover, being less sensitive and losing another 5db baffle step loss, you are 80dB sensitivity, down another 2.5dB from the RS225. The star of the show is the RS225-8. Almost any 3-4in full range could be used for the wide band or full range here as long as its is relatively flat in response to allow a 1st order XO.
The RSS210HF has a very sharp peak at 4.5kHz. That’s going to show up in the very audible 2.25kHz range as a subharmonic distortion in an audible region unless the XO is steep and well below 1kHz.
Thanks XRK971 for the response, much appreciated and for putting me straight on the reason for using the rs225, a subtlety I had missed.
This is slightly of topic so please ignore if it is too far off.
If using a Harsch crossover in a 3way which of these is the correct way to go -
Bass - 4th order low pass, mid - 2nd order high pass / 4th order low pass, high - 2nd order high pass.
Or
Bass - 4th order low pass, mid - 2nd order high pass / 2nd order low pass, high - 4th order high pass.
This is slightly of topic so please ignore if it is too far off.
If using a Harsch crossover in a 3way which of these is the correct way to go -
Bass - 4th order low pass, mid - 2nd order high pass / 4th order low pass, high - 2nd order high pass.
Or
Bass - 4th order low pass, mid - 2nd order high pass / 2nd order low pass, high - 4th order high pass.