Hans Theesink.
a very quick recording of the eps panel on the left and the canvas panel on the right.
i just guessed at the 200hz xo for the panels and sub and also the levels so i hope there is not to much bass?
i also should in future restrict the recordings to 4mins so i can use the 256kb as the sound is so much better, but as i said this was a very quick recording.
you tend to loose a lot of detail and ambience .
hope it still sounds ok.
steve.
a very quick recording of the eps panel on the left and the canvas panel on the right.
i just guessed at the 200hz xo for the panels and sub and also the levels so i hope there is not to much bass?
i also should in future restrict the recordings to 4mins so i can use the 256kb as the sound is so much better, but as i said this was a very quick recording.
you tend to loose a lot of detail and ambience .
hope it still sounds ok.
steve.
andreas.
it probably depends on how you would define a quality amplifier ?
now days if an amplifier sounds very good to me , then thats good enough for me.
over the years i have heard some pretty bad sounding amps, and most were given rave reviews by the hifi press.
i even paid money for them
i was an early convert to the lowly digital amps and could not understand why they got such bad press, maybe i was just lucky in my choices ?
i have built a few amps in the past such as the JLH 10watt CLass A,which i realy liked, but the heat
the price of cheap good sounding digital amps including the higher end HYPEX(quality )amps, made it a pointless task building them as i could not buy a transformer for that price
so what is a quality amplifier now days ?
steve.
it probably depends on how you would define a quality amplifier ?
now days if an amplifier sounds very good to me , then thats good enough for me.
over the years i have heard some pretty bad sounding amps, and most were given rave reviews by the hifi press.
i even paid money for them
i was an early convert to the lowly digital amps and could not understand why they got such bad press, maybe i was just lucky in my choices ?
i have built a few amps in the past such as the JLH 10watt CLass A,which i realy liked, but the heat
the price of cheap good sounding digital amps including the higher end HYPEX(quality )amps, made it a pointless task building them as i could not buy a transformer for that price
so what is a quality amplifier now days ?
steve.
running water
i was looking through my cds to play on these panels and i was reminded that even in my early days of dml using corrugated cardboard,that the sound of running water used to sound so realistic .
natural sounds come across so naturally , you could almost reach out and touch the water.
hopefully this recording will show this .
most speakers will make a sound that will sound like frying bacon.
steve.
i was looking through my cds to play on these panels and i was reminded that even in my early days of dml using corrugated cardboard,that the sound of running water used to sound so realistic .
natural sounds come across so naturally , you could almost reach out and touch the water.
hopefully this recording will show this .
most speakers will make a sound that will sound like frying bacon.
steve.
Naked canvas panel
I was looking at the canvas art panel last night and realised that with all the cracks in it that it was not rigid at all in fact it was very floppy.
So I decided in a very quick decision to glue an exciter on to a brand new canvas panel with a brace at the back to support the exciter.
And that was it,nothing else just the canvas and the exciter.
It only took about half an hour to find and saw the wood for the brace and to put everything together and glue.
I have not had time to assess the sound yet but took some quick pictures of the panel and a response at 12inches.
This panel rolls off at about 300hz which is handy as this is the normal roll of on my TLS,so i xo the panels to this so no overlap anymore.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to listen tonight
Steve.
I was looking at the canvas art panel last night and realised that with all the cracks in it that it was not rigid at all in fact it was very floppy.
So I decided in a very quick decision to glue an exciter on to a brand new canvas panel with a brace at the back to support the exciter.
And that was it,nothing else just the canvas and the exciter.
It only took about half an hour to find and saw the wood for the brace and to put everything together and glue.
I have not had time to assess the sound yet but took some quick pictures of the panel and a response at 12inches.
This panel rolls off at about 300hz which is handy as this is the normal roll of on my TLS,so i xo the panels to this so no overlap anymore.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to listen tonight
Steve.
Attachments
I agree with @mexjerry be careful about the depth of the brace not pushing the exciter against the canvas or that will kill your low end and probably your detail
Im not using a brace, I just used PVA primer to cover canvas then used the pva to stick a thin piece of balsa onto the panel then stuck my exciters to that and I get awesome response curve!! it doesnt even roll off till 150 or 200 sounds amazing!
Im not using a brace, I just used PVA primer to cover canvas then used the pva to stick a thin piece of balsa onto the panel then stuck my exciters to that and I get awesome response curve!! it doesnt even roll off till 150 or 200 sounds amazing!
Attachments
mexjerry and 57buick.
as you can see from my photos the canvas is perfectly flat and there is no ply panel involved , just the coil glued to the canvas.
if my 6x4inch ply was attached there would be no roll off at all until 40hz and that is with a single 10watt exciter.
this was just an experiment to see what a naked coil on the canvas would do and to prove that the ply was the main drive below 300hz.
this could also be other materials or something like a fiberglass coating or both.
ive done a few quick recordings for you of the naked canvas and exciter.
i still have not had time for a good listen yet.
steve.
as you can see from my photos the canvas is perfectly flat and there is no ply panel involved , just the coil glued to the canvas.
if my 6x4inch ply was attached there would be no roll off at all until 40hz and that is with a single 10watt exciter.
this was just an experiment to see what a naked coil on the canvas would do and to prove that the ply was the main drive below 300hz.
this could also be other materials or something like a fiberglass coating or both.
ive done a few quick recordings for you of the naked canvas and exciter.
i still have not had time for a good listen yet.
steve.
The glue has pretty much dried now so took some more pictures of the full range response at 12inches and at 3m.
The response for the 12inch plot is a lot better below the 300hz mark holding up well down to about 125hz(about -10db or so) but is still outputting down to 20hz.
On the 3m full range plot ignore everything below 100hz as this disappears into the outside noise .
I decided to let the panels run down to 100hz before xo and run the sub up to 300hz this gives a nice sounding response.
What next, should I soke the panel in 50x50 mix pva and see what happens?
Any suggestions?
The response of my badly cracked cascamite canvas panel above 300hz is identical to this panel so did not take plots .
Although the low end is a lot stronger, even though the panel is quite floppy because of the cracks, maybe too much air is seeping through the naked uncoated canvas?
I'm in no rush.
I've been having a little listen while writing this ,and they seem to have quite a smooth sound, with plenty of space and detail .
Not bad for the amount of money and effort I put into building it.
I'm wondering how much more I can squeeze out of them with a little effort?
I have noticed that the exciter starts ringing on loud piano ,I know I have at least one duff exciter and it looks like I put it on this panel
Must remember to mark it this time
What a pain.
Steve.
The response for the 12inch plot is a lot better below the 300hz mark holding up well down to about 125hz(about -10db or so) but is still outputting down to 20hz.
On the 3m full range plot ignore everything below 100hz as this disappears into the outside noise .
I decided to let the panels run down to 100hz before xo and run the sub up to 300hz this gives a nice sounding response.
What next, should I soke the panel in 50x50 mix pva and see what happens?
Any suggestions?
The response of my badly cracked cascamite canvas panel above 300hz is identical to this panel so did not take plots .
Although the low end is a lot stronger, even though the panel is quite floppy because of the cracks, maybe too much air is seeping through the naked uncoated canvas?
I'm in no rush.
I've been having a little listen while writing this ,and they seem to have quite a smooth sound, with plenty of space and detail .
Not bad for the amount of money and effort I put into building it.
I'm wondering how much more I can squeeze out of them with a little effort?
I have noticed that the exciter starts ringing on loud piano ,I know I have at least one duff exciter and it looks like I put it on this panel
Must remember to mark it this time
What a pain.
Steve.
Attachments
JimG.
For well over 10years now various grades of eps has been my favourite material to work with,coated in 50x50 pva of course.
For me it's been the one to beat sound wise.
The small light panels are starting to come close,thin card,veneer ,canvas ,they all sound very good, the canvas can be full range if not used for heavy pounding rock or such like music ,but they still don't have the realism and detail that the eps can produce,so far anyway.
Over on NXT RUBBISH at diy audio over 10years ago,we thought large panels was the only way to get low frequencies.
Now I can get small panels to go pretty low ,but the canvas frame takes the biscuit when it comes to LF.
It all depends on your needs and environment.
But for me anyway,eps brings me closer to the performance as if they are in the room,with a little help from a sub of course.
Steve.
For well over 10years now various grades of eps has been my favourite material to work with,coated in 50x50 pva of course.
For me it's been the one to beat sound wise.
The small light panels are starting to come close,thin card,veneer ,canvas ,they all sound very good, the canvas can be full range if not used for heavy pounding rock or such like music ,but they still don't have the realism and detail that the eps can produce,so far anyway.
Over on NXT RUBBISH at diy audio over 10years ago,we thought large panels was the only way to get low frequencies.
Now I can get small panels to go pretty low ,but the canvas frame takes the biscuit when it comes to LF.
It all depends on your needs and environment.
But for me anyway,eps brings me closer to the performance as if they are in the room,with a little help from a sub of course.
Steve.
Steve,
Here in the US, one of our great DIY resources, PartsExpress, has many of it exciters back-ordered and has had so for much of the COVID times.
It just seems like exciters have gotten very hard to find.
In the hope of finding alternatives...
What exciters have you used?
Also, what sources have you found for exciters?
Andreas
Here in the US, one of our great DIY resources, PartsExpress, has many of it exciters back-ordered and has had so for much of the COVID times.
It just seems like exciters have gotten very hard to find.
In the hope of finding alternatives...
What exciters have you used?
Also, what sources have you found for exciters?
Andreas
Aagas.
Luckily I have not had to find new exciters.
This is basically my exciters ,not so cheap now and it seems to be only in 8 ohms?
TEAX25C10-8/HS - Tectonic | Tectonic
Or this from parts express encased in a frog ?
Tectonic TEAX25C10-8/SP 25mm High Power 8 Ohm Frog Exciter
I had to rip the exciters out of the frog ?
I think I ordered 20 pairs!
The shipping and in port tax was as much as the exciters, you are lucky to have parts express not so good if you have to import them.
Steve.
Luckily I have not had to find new exciters.
This is basically my exciters ,not so cheap now and it seems to be only in 8 ohms?
TEAX25C10-8/HS - Tectonic | Tectonic
Or this from parts express encased in a frog ?
Tectonic TEAX25C10-8/SP 25mm High Power 8 Ohm Frog Exciter
I had to rip the exciters out of the frog ?
I think I ordered 20 pairs!
The shipping and in port tax was as much as the exciters, you are lucky to have parts express not so good if you have to import them.
Steve.
I am thinking about grabbing a bunch of those Aiyima 50mm/20W exciters. I ordered the Dayton 40W RMS ones but I don't know if they will ever be in stock. The date keeps moving back. Anyone have experience with these?
AIYIMA 20/25W Mini Audio Speaker 44/50MM Full Range Column Altavoz Resonance Sound Exciter Bass Neodymium Portable Loudspeaker|resonance speaker|woofer speakerspeaker 50mm - AliExpress
AIYIMA 20/25W Mini Audio Speaker 44/50MM Full Range Column Altavoz Resonance Sound Exciter Bass Neodymium Portable Loudspeaker|resonance speaker|woofer speakerspeaker 50mm - AliExpress
aagas.
I had to turn the house upside down to find these frogs .
I should have used the words gently prised them apart .
On my frogs(and they look very similar ) the exciter is glued with a brown glue which I presume is evostic, there is also a foam sticky ring on the magnet which you can't see.
I just used a small screw driver to slip under the frog and magnet near the mounting point and slowly prised them off.
Of coarse they could use sonic welding now days or a different glue but a pair of wire cutters could do the job just as well as they are only soft plastic .
Don't forget that these are only 10watt exciters so don't try to nail them to a wall
These are good exciters with very good frequency response on the right materials.
They are also still in stock !!
Steve.
I had to turn the house upside down to find these frogs .
I should have used the words gently prised them apart .
On my frogs(and they look very similar ) the exciter is glued with a brown glue which I presume is evostic, there is also a foam sticky ring on the magnet which you can't see.
I just used a small screw driver to slip under the frog and magnet near the mounting point and slowly prised them off.
Of coarse they could use sonic welding now days or a different glue but a pair of wire cutters could do the job just as well as they are only soft plastic .
Don't forget that these are only 10watt exciters so don't try to nail them to a wall
These are good exciters with very good frequency response on the right materials.
They are also still in stock !!
Steve.
Attachments
Cheapvega.
They look like a very robust exciter.
My only concerns I have are the coil is attached to the very stiff spring plate and then you screw it on to the plate that you screw to the panel.
I'm not sure if it was you who suggested screwing the spring plate directly to the panel but this could be a good idea as it would drive the back and front surface at the same time.
Maybe better used on heavier panels such as ply .
The springs are not as free as the spider on my type of exciter and will be harder to drive and will probably have a sound of their own?Steve
You would also be screwing the panel to the plate centre not the coil directly.
If you try them let us know how it goes, you should still I think get a pretty decent sound out of them with the right material, hopefully.
Steve.
They look like a very robust exciter.
My only concerns I have are the coil is attached to the very stiff spring plate and then you screw it on to the plate that you screw to the panel.
I'm not sure if it was you who suggested screwing the spring plate directly to the panel but this could be a good idea as it would drive the back and front surface at the same time.
Maybe better used on heavier panels such as ply .
The springs are not as free as the spider on my type of exciter and will be harder to drive and will probably have a sound of their own?Steve
You would also be screwing the panel to the plate centre not the coil directly.
If you try them let us know how it goes, you should still I think get a pretty decent sound out of them with the right material, hopefully.
Steve.
I now have some 30 mm XPS panels and a way to CNC machine them. What would be the best shape and size to start with? Should I machine off the surface grid from them? Would it make any sense to machine more? I saw some 3D machined panels some time ago maybe even in this thread. I will definitely coat with PVA as that seems to be a consensus here.