Glue doesn't have too much smell as the spray is pretty directed. I put pieces on newspaper and spray light coat from 8in away. Very quick and thin coat bonds like crazy. Watch for overspray on floor or carpet.
Here is measurement with 750Hz XO and with and without EQ. Title incorrectly labeled 700Hz XO.
This high XO was tested to ensure compatibility with AMT.
Here is measurement with 750Hz XO and with and without EQ. Title incorrectly labeled 700Hz XO.
This high XO was tested to ensure compatibility with AMT.
Attachments
it'll be interesting to see how it behaves graph-wise plus subjective comments as a full KaZba system with whatever driver X had in the little version.
here's a couple regular K graphs of small couplers - Art's dad's "K8" (loosely based on the slit vent K12) with large slot vents is interesting with BetsyK http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...f6-karlsonator-six-prototype.html#post3865028
here's a couple regular K graphs of small couplers - Art's dad's "K8" (loosely based on the slit vent K12) with large slot vents is interesting with BetsyK http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...f6-karlsonator-six-prototype.html#post3865028
Dual 8in KaZba with K-aperture
Here is the completed KaZba with the K-aperture on both sides. I added some fiberglass in the larger end of each side to help reduce the internal reflections. The K-aperture is held on with screws and a set of internal FC-cardboard cleat blocks. Correction on the dimensions: height is 17in not 18in as stated earlier. Cross sectional area of K aperture was set at approximately same as Sd of one driver. So compreasion ratio is 2:1.
The good thing is that within the bandpass of the slot, there is no coloration of the response from the no-aperture case. However, the effect of the slot and volume behind it produces a bandpass that now ends up at about 250Hz (black), in order to get a flat response to 750Hz requires excessive EQ'ing shown here (red), with the full range top (green). With this much EQ required, this is not a good thing so with this combination of volume and aperture, the XO really should be around 200Hz to 250Hz - in which case the response is quite flat. Here, a 30Hz high pass at -18dB/oct is used and the low pass is a -24dB/oct LR at 750Hz.
Here is the corresponding impulse response, this is a very rough setup which can still be optimized for time delays and XO point. The W4-1320SB was used at the full range top here. It sounds much better with a XO at 225Hz vs 750Hz:
Here is the completed KaZba with the K-aperture on both sides. I added some fiberglass in the larger end of each side to help reduce the internal reflections. The K-aperture is held on with screws and a set of internal FC-cardboard cleat blocks. Correction on the dimensions: height is 17in not 18in as stated earlier. Cross sectional area of K aperture was set at approximately same as Sd of one driver. So compreasion ratio is 2:1.
The good thing is that within the bandpass of the slot, there is no coloration of the response from the no-aperture case. However, the effect of the slot and volume behind it produces a bandpass that now ends up at about 250Hz (black), in order to get a flat response to 750Hz requires excessive EQ'ing shown here (red), with the full range top (green). With this much EQ required, this is not a good thing so with this combination of volume and aperture, the XO really should be around 200Hz to 250Hz - in which case the response is quite flat. Here, a 30Hz high pass at -18dB/oct is used and the low pass is a -24dB/oct LR at 750Hz.
Here is the corresponding impulse response, this is a very rough setup which can still be optimized for time delays and XO point. The W4-1320SB was used at the full range top here. It sounds much better with a XO at 225Hz vs 750Hz:
Attachments
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Yes, red is EQ'd by a lot - too much. I have to spend more time listening. Just got build done and not enough time to listen. The one track I heard seems to have a reverberant effect with the XO at 750Hz. But as you predicted, the bass extension is deeper and gets solidly into 28Hz -3dB now. Maybe I am just being greedy thinking it should span 30Hz to 750Hz?
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KaZba 8 with K-aperture Sound Clips
Here are some sound clips of the KaZba dual 8 with a Nautaloss trapezoid baffle full range top in a FAST configuration with the XO at 225Hz (same setting as used in the Subjective Blind Comparo thread - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270614-subjective-blind-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html ). The full range driver is at this time, a mystery super secret model that will be revealed in the other thread after Round 2 of the comparisons. It just arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to try it out. I have to say I am very impressed with its sound, and I think you will agree that it and the KaZba 8 sound fantastic together. Here are some sound clips of vocals/jazz and a drum solo. Once I got the time alignment adjusted properly, the sound just is very tight and the articulation in the bass is superb as you will hear. Dipole Karlson bass sounds very tight and punchy - one of the best drum renditions I have heard for such a compact box.
Change the extension from .ASC to .MP3 in order to listen.
Enjoy!
Let me know what you think of the sound. Keep in mind that what you are hearing comes from an all foam core/cardboard speaker using budget drivers.
Here are some sound clips of the KaZba dual 8 with a Nautaloss trapezoid baffle full range top in a FAST configuration with the XO at 225Hz (same setting as used in the Subjective Blind Comparo thread - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/270614-subjective-blind-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html ). The full range driver is at this time, a mystery super secret model that will be revealed in the other thread after Round 2 of the comparisons. It just arrived in the mail yesterday and I had to try it out. I have to say I am very impressed with its sound, and I think you will agree that it and the KaZba 8 sound fantastic together. Here are some sound clips of vocals/jazz and a drum solo. Once I got the time alignment adjusted properly, the sound just is very tight and the articulation in the bass is superb as you will hear. Dipole Karlson bass sounds very tight and punchy - one of the best drum renditions I have heard for such a compact box.
Change the extension from .ASC to .MP3 in order to listen.
Enjoy!
Let me know what you think of the sound. Keep in mind that what you are hearing comes from an all foam core/cardboard speaker using budget drivers.
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snappy FR - KaZba's kick drum sounds good - are the aperture plates removable? - if so , then you might investigate the effects of a larger starting gap. Carl's 20 year old isobaric passive radiator klam had a large gap as he reasoned there was no need to disperse highs.
I don't know what driver was in C's klam but you can see that it augmented 8-10" Scan Speak woofers - its aperture
was "proto-Keystone" but later than the 1960's mini-K article with similar
a slight flare from a "V" is pretty for a regular K - FE206EN is a great little K-driver
I don't know what driver was in C's klam but you can see that it augmented 8-10" Scan Speak woofers - its aperture
was "proto-Keystone" but later than the 1960's mini-K article with similar
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
a slight flare from a "V" is pretty for a regular K - FE206EN is a great little K-driver
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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if the aperture plates are permanent, then you might extend the slot towards the top - maybe as a narrowing slit - I don't think it would have a big effect on response - might get worse - its an unknown as your KaZba is a fresh idea.
X - what is the Q of this KaZba? - you can run an impedance sweep and read it as would free-air parameter (I think)
X - what is the Q of this KaZba? - you can run an impedance sweep and read it as would free-air parameter (I think)
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I think you do just look at qts as system Q for open baffle and sealed - as long as there's a defined low F Z peak and nothing too close for other peaks. Cardboard cut with scissors might be good enough to see the effects on response. Another thing - what happens to response, etc. if you block one aperture turning it into a kinda klam? - probably a useless thing.
A T/S run will give system Q for sealed, aperiodic and OB as freddi said. In this case, the difference from free-air parameters will likely be dominated by the air-mass that will add with driver Mmd, as it does with U and H frames. This can be simulated in Hornresp as a matter of fact, which I thought was cool when I discovered it.
This is my KaZba mini.
I made just one with two 2 inch woofers that came out from a Klipsch igroove.
Just straightforward foamcore construction, with the K-aperture made from 1 cm thick FC.
The push-pull arrangement really helps the cheap drivers, and cleans up the sound.
I figured I could get maybe 350~1200 hz out from this guy, so I hooked it up to my 3-way rig, and gave it a listen.
The sound has that open baffle 'ambience', but due to the K-aperture, it is
crisp and snappy, and more 'focused'. (as opposed to the 'diffused' sound from OB's that I am not too fond about)
My opinion is that this KaZba design is definitely an upgrade to the standard OB's that I have experienced till now.
Congrats, xrk! Another successful design!
Just a few questions regarding the push-pull orientation.
1. What about the W frame PP as in LX521? Will it be usable?
What do you think the pros and cons be against the standard PP mounting
in original KaZba?
2. Can you use the PP orientation in a double driver Karlsonator?
I made just one with two 2 inch woofers that came out from a Klipsch igroove.
Just straightforward foamcore construction, with the K-aperture made from 1 cm thick FC.
The push-pull arrangement really helps the cheap drivers, and cleans up the sound.
I figured I could get maybe 350~1200 hz out from this guy, so I hooked it up to my 3-way rig, and gave it a listen.
The sound has that open baffle 'ambience', but due to the K-aperture, it is
crisp and snappy, and more 'focused'. (as opposed to the 'diffused' sound from OB's that I am not too fond about)
My opinion is that this KaZba design is definitely an upgrade to the standard OB's that I have experienced till now.
Congrats, xrk! Another successful design!
Just a few questions regarding the push-pull orientation.
1. What about the W frame PP as in LX521? Will it be usable?
What do you think the pros and cons be against the standard PP mounting
in original KaZba?
2. Can you use the PP orientation in a double driver Karlsonator?
Attachments
Bolexsbm,
Thank you for the kind words and Wow! Nice build there! You make good looking foam core stuff. Do you paint it? What are you using for bass and tweet given that you were aiming for a midrange on this? K-tube tweeter no doubt
Congrats
Regarding the Z baffle push pull vs Linkwitz W baffle push pull they are probably very similar - I would bet they model almost identically in Akabak. The Z baffle lends itself more to having the larger part of the K aperture aligned with the front face.
The motion on the Z baffle may have more vibration compared to the W which has semi orthogonal motions. A true counter facing push pull slot will cancel motion induced vibrations.
Thank you for the kind words and Wow! Nice build there! You make good looking foam core stuff. Do you paint it? What are you using for bass and tweet given that you were aiming for a midrange on this? K-tube tweeter no doubt
Congrats
Regarding the Z baffle push pull vs Linkwitz W baffle push pull they are probably very similar - I would bet they model almost identically in Akabak. The Z baffle lends itself more to having the larger part of the K aperture aligned with the front face.
The motion on the Z baffle may have more vibration compared to the W which has semi orthogonal motions. A true counter facing push pull slot will cancel motion induced vibrations.
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xrk971,
Thanks for the compliment! (It means a lot, coming from you)
And also thanks for sharing the design(s)! Next on my list is the xki...
The foamcore is the colored variety which comes in 4-5 colors, I think.
(The yellow one is some scrap left over from my 200hz 'Smithagrain' Paraline project - I'll try to post the details in the FC speaker thread)
I'm using a K-tweeter for highs as you guessed.(Unit is from Klipsch Promedia - I used to be a Klipsch guy - had almost all the Heritage series at one point. LOL)
For bass, I'm using scaled down (to 12 inch size) DIY LaScala which has quad 8 inchers per side in a PPSL plenum with the djk ported mod.
I know LS has limitations as is, and when scaled down, it's usable range kinda 'shrinks'
But I have a soft spot for Klipsch designs, so I really wanted to make one for myself, incorporating all the mods.
So my LS plays the 80~300hz range, and my experiments take it up from there. (I live in an apartment, so can't play much lower anyway. )
Thanks for the compliment! (It means a lot, coming from you)
And also thanks for sharing the design(s)! Next on my list is the xki...
The foamcore is the colored variety which comes in 4-5 colors, I think.
(The yellow one is some scrap left over from my 200hz 'Smithagrain' Paraline project - I'll try to post the details in the FC speaker thread)
I'm using a K-tweeter for highs as you guessed.(Unit is from Klipsch Promedia - I used to be a Klipsch guy - had almost all the Heritage series at one point. LOL)
For bass, I'm using scaled down (to 12 inch size) DIY LaScala which has quad 8 inchers per side in a PPSL plenum with the djk ported mod.
I know LS has limitations as is, and when scaled down, it's usable range kinda 'shrinks'
But I have a soft spot for Klipsch designs, so I really wanted to make one for myself, incorporating all the mods.
So my LS plays the 80~300hz range, and my experiments take it up from there. (I live in an apartment, so can't play much lower anyway.
)Attachments
that LS is adorable - where are its corner and -10dB points? are your drivers 8" or 6"? I don't think PWK's little bast$rd (LB76) could play as well (?) bolexsbm - have you tried cone K-dispersed tweeter? (or maybe a piezo with K-aperture?) I know the K-tube is "king of tweeters" - lol (but true over a certain range with good compression drivers)
- where are its corner and -10dB points? are your drivers 8" or 6"? I don't think PWK's little bast$rd (LB76) could play as well (?) bolexsbm - have you tried cone K-dispersed tweeter? (or maybe a piezo with K-aperture?) I know the K-tube is "king of tweeters" - lol (but true over a certain range with good compression drivers)
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