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Alpair 7P directivity measurements
Alpair 7P directivity measurements
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Old 28th January 2015, 01:11 AM   #1
tomchr is offline tomchr  Canada
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Default Alpair 7P directivity measurements

Does anyone have measurements of the Alpair 7P frequency response off axis? Sadly, the data sheet only includes the on-axis response.

Also: Mark Audio's site (http://markaudio.com/component/k2/it...31-Raw-Drivers) does not have the data sheet for the 7P version. Should this be taken as an indicator that the driver is being phased out?

Thanks,

~Tom
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Last edited by tomchr; 28th January 2015 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 28th January 2015, 01:08 PM   #2
gaston senac is offline gaston senac  New Zealand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomchr View Post
Should this be taken as an indicator that the driver is being phased out?
Not at all! I dare to say...
It's a new driver after all.
The problem with data being published is that there are heat debates over the importance, accuracy, method, equipment, conditions, etc on the measurements.
I think that because MA was over criticized on the data being published, in an un-constructive manner, that they decided to publish the minimum data (or just the data that every other manufacturer publish).
Maybe you can look for independent measurements. Try the Full range forum. A user helping a lot with this is xrk971 and you can read some info on Rutcho's site.
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Old 28th January 2015, 05:52 PM   #3
chrisb is offline chrisb
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tom: Mark's resources have always been stretched a bit thin, and even with recent changes, updating their website has frequently lagged behind R&D and production / shipping, so I think it's safe to conclude that's all that's at play here.


Such "factory" measurements of this driver as have been made available for publication can be found on Madisound's site;
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-4-full-range/ - which I assume is what you're referencing.

As Gaston notes above, the general topic of measurements has long been a thorny issue for Mark.
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Old 28th January 2015, 08:00 PM   #4
tomchr is offline tomchr  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gaston senac View Post
It's a new driver after all.

The problem with data being published is that there are heat debates over the importance, accuracy, method, equipment, conditions, etc on the measurements.
I didn't realize it's a new driver. No worries. I can wait for data.

Sadly data is under-appreciated by many audio enthusiasts. I've faced quite a bit of that myself. I've also been given glowingly positive feedback for publishing data for my circuits, so it really goes both ways. I hope Mark will ignore the negative criticism and publish the data so those of us who do appreciate data can make informed decisions on which drivers to purchase.

What I do appreciate about MA's data sheet is that they do show lightly smoothed data (my guess is 1/24th octave smoothing) rather than the 1/3 octave smoothing shown by other manufacturers. Mark's an honest guy. I like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Such "factory" measurements of this driver as have been made available for publication can be found on Madisound's site;
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...-4-full-range/ - which I assume is what you're referencing.
The data at Madisound shows the on-axis frequency response. It would be nice with the data for 15, 30, 45, 60 degrees as well. At least 15 and 30 degrees. If the 7P performs as well as the 7.3, I'll be happy to buy a pair.

~Tom
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Old 28th January 2015, 10:36 PM   #5
markaudio is offline markaudio  Hong Kong
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Hi Guys,
Its an opportune time as there's been discussions within the new owners group (MarkAudio Loudspeakers Limited and Sota-Markaudio) on data presentation. Currently the investment into an even larger anechoic chamber is happening to the tune of 25,000US$. This + investing in CLIO version 11 and a new lab class mics means the new investment is being taken seriously.

Alas, its unlikely that the data provided by this new set-up will be made available to the Diy side of the business. Some of the new owners have little confidence for being given fair treatment on this issue within Diyaudio. Too much of the negative criticism thats based on home testing doesn't relate to industry standard driver-on-baffle anechoic work. Some diy (non-anechoic) testing proponents too often claim their work is somehow magically superior. None would believe 2 blokes sharing a old 10 dollar multimeter saying "yes we've thoroughly tested your Boeing 747, ready to fly you anywhere". Yet in Diyaudio, some believe such an thinking is perfectly valid.

On the other hand, some makers in the past and today purposefully present data that flaffers a driver's performance. Over-smoothing a response has fuelled suspicion in the minds of some end-users for good reason. Then again, those with any common sense in the business know there's no such thing as a perfect response, so see little point in presenting data thats open to misinterpretation.

I've put allot of hours into Diyaudio trying to facilitate a mature debate to reach some consensus, alas with no success. I've been "shot" too many times by a strident very vocal minority who, in my opinion have deliberately train-wrecked the discourse to favour their own egos. Its a form of modern trolling that has become spicy reading but has done nothing to create genuine enlightenment. Their type of posting activity has damaged Markaudio's business. Its applied even more pressure on me while I'm less able to cope due to my poor health. They take perverse pleasure from their efforts to de-rail the only maker who's prepared to engage with end-users.

Summarising, at this stage, the new owners are likely to stick with LMS V4 data presentation until such time as they feel confident of a seed change inside Diyaudio. This might be a long time (if ever). I wish the situation were different. At least I tried.

Thanks
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 28th January 2015 at 11:25 PM.
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Old 29th January 2015, 02:59 AM   #6
JoeyGS is offline JoeyGS  Philippines
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For us here in the Philippines who are Mark Audio users feel and believe your products are awesome and heaven sent! Thank you for bringing your products to us. Our ears have decided
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Old 29th January 2015, 05:49 AM   #7
markaudio is offline markaudio  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyGS View Post
For us here in the Philippines who are Mark Audio users feel and believe your products are awesome and heaven sent! Thank you for bringing your products to us. Our ears have decided
Many thanks Joey,
Your support is appreciated.

Some members tell me I'm too critical of these types of issues for which I apologise, its not my intention. But I do think its right to let all members know the situation from MarkAudio's perspective, so everyone is fully informed.

"Free speech" at any cost isn't right. A few members spoil it for the larger reasonable majority knowing they can say anything of a nonsensical sudo-babble-technical nature, without any requirement for taking personal responsibility for their comments. Such is the construction of many forums, identities are hidden. Even moderators are hidden. The operation of the forum is hidden, its ownership is effectively hidden, yet its operated as a "for profit" business. I hope new MarkAudio wishes to be an open, transparent and engaging business within Diyaudio. Given the current operational philosophy of Diyaudio, its difficult to know what the longer term outcome will be.

I risk wondering off topic so I'll end here. Suffice to say I personally would like to publish more in-depth data, but given the current situation on the way this type of issue is handled on Diyaudio, I see no immediate future to add more detailed information. My apologies for this, but there's little specifically I can do.

I would like to expand on the 7P's design and operation, engage more with you guys, but I'm not sure its wise for me to do so; Just becomes cannon fodder for the modern techno-trollers.

I can say this, put any Markaudio driver product in a half decent reasonably well made box; Feed them with a reasonable amp signal and good source, you'll get a pleasing workable result. The drivers will do their job.

My email for the time being remains: support@markaudio.com

Cheers
Mark.

Last edited by markaudio; 29th January 2015 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 29th January 2015, 08:48 AM   #8
markaudio is offline markaudio  Hong Kong
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Hi Tomchr,
Apologies I'm not able to publicly assist you for the reasons given. Fee free to email me if you need more support.

I've left my email address in case there's items that guys would me to comment on. I'll do my best but my email bag is busy, so please allow time to me to wade through the various requests.

Cheers
Mark.
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Old 29th January 2015, 01:52 PM   #9
Barleywater is offline Barleywater  United States
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I don't own any MA drivers; but certainly do not rule out the possibility.

Anybody really concerned about polar pattern can DIY and compare.

MA pursuit of very low profile driver membranes all but guarantees polar patterns at least as good as competitor's.

I seriously doubt that a builder confronted with MA polar data would shy away because they thought the patterns were too wide; likewise I would be dumbfounded if a builder found MA driver polar pattern to be too narrow relative to any other manufacture's similar offerings.

I see no competitive advantage in MA providing such data for their target market.
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Old 29th January 2015, 02:03 PM   #10
BackinBlack is offline BackinBlack  England
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Alpair 7P directivity measurements
Hi Mark,
Good words and obviously heartfelt.
I share your concern regarding the few that seem to delight in denegrating genuine products and developments. It is, unfortunately, possible for those with a little (or no) knowledge to abuse valid data to further their own ends; be it for commercial purposes or just mischief.
The underlying principle which I believe this forum is founded on is the sharing of knowledge and support in learning about audio. It is disappointing that some "members" choose to criticise, based on either their personal prejudices or very limited technical resources.
As you point out this does little to encourage manufacturers to present true data.
Ultimately for many of us the acid test is whether we like the sound or performance our efforts produce.
I wish you and the comapny well for the future and hope that a more positive attitude will pervade.
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