The XKi W5-2143's are my lab test speakers that get played when I do the first sound on an amp. So in that sense, they are special because they are the first voice of all new amps. They have deeper bass extension than the dual 3FE25-16 0.53x K'nators. The latter have a more clear and forward midrange. The highs of the 3FE25's are very good - like a great tweeter. The W5-2143's are not far behind. Sound quality wise, I think the 3FE25-16 Karlsonators have the edge as they can sound great with almost anything. The exception is that stuff with deep bass kick drums will do better on W5-2143 XKi. I like them both, but most music will sound more direct and crisp with the 3FE25.
Thank you X for the comparison feedback and I trust you incorporated your wife’s impressions too. Maybe you were biased and had to say nice things about SWMBO's Karlsonators. Anyway, the observations are pretty much what I’ve suspected, but not what I’ve hoped for. It confirms that the dual 3FE25-16 0.53x Karlsonators are very special.
well - if my builder has time, I told him to go ahead with "one" 34 liter XKi for P-Audio's SN10C coax. With Karlson's originals, and favorable speaker match, there's no need * to have any damping at all in the front chamber. With little cavities things can get rough. There will be only 8.5 liters front chamber in this XKi and no absorber stub to control reflections. I hope the top vent does some of the work of a stub.
(* a little bit of felt on the inside of the wings might be useful with some speakers - I know that could help with my Nirvana super10 and Karlsonator12)
Does Acoustic Control's 115bk middle chamber act as smoothing stub? That's a good little coupler and makes a decent graph with the port blocked. There was no damping material whatsoever in the 115BK rear or front when I took some outdoor graphs. Also, my tall K18 is smooth and very good sounding. It did seem to have a little bump at 80Hz with 18" having ~140g moving mass, The old EV18B had about half that mass and ideal for K-duty.
(* a little bit of felt on the inside of the wings might be useful with some speakers - I know that could help with my Nirvana super10 and Karlsonator12)
Does Acoustic Control's 115bk middle chamber act as smoothing stub? That's a good little coupler and makes a decent graph with the port blocked. There was no damping material whatsoever in the 115BK rear or front when I took some outdoor graphs. Also, my tall K18 is smooth and very good sounding. It did seem to have a little bump at 80Hz with 18" having ~140g moving mass, The old EV18B had about half that mass and ideal for K-duty.
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~ xrk971 - I'm still interested in an XKi helper woofer module for Dayton's PA310. High outpuit and small size preferred over LF extension. It would be nice to have rock solid bass to the mid 50s 2 pi - if possible without making it too large. Solid to 60 would not be bad as in a K12 2 pi, its more like 80Hz.
Def_Driver "PA310" | Dayton 12 inch 96dB 450w Xmax 5.0mm
Sd=530.9cm2
Fs=39Hz
Mms=72.8g
Qms=8.85
Qes=0.30
Re=5.5ohm
BL=18.0Tm
Vas=91.74658L
Def_Driver "PA310" | Dayton 12 inch 96dB 450w Xmax 5.0mm
Sd=530.9cm2
Fs=39Hz
Mms=72.8g
Qms=8.85
Qes=0.30
Re=5.5ohm
BL=18.0Tm
Vas=91.74658L
using MMJ's proposed model (and very little idea of how to adjust/scale it) I come up with 31 liters back chamber and about the same (when the 4.7 liter stub is taken into account) for the front chamber. Hopefully MMJ will have enough free time to comment on his model's assumptions and what may be adjusted with some degree of realism.
Dayton Audio DS135-8
Hi X.
I have been searching for budget options to build helper woofers for a FAST. Something that can be used with say a 0.4x or 0.53x Karlsonators to give more bass extension. There is very little mention of this driver on the forum, but it looks like a really nice woofer for the XKi maybe? Only $24.57 Is it possible to sim this driver for us?
DS135-8 Product Specifications:
Nominal Diameter5"Power Handling (RMS)50 Watts
Power Handling (max)100 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response50 to 7,000 HzSensitivity86.6 dB 2.83V/1m
Voice Coil Diameter1"Magnet Weight21 oz.
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)52.5 HzDC Resistance (Re)5.9 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.84 mHMechanical Q (Qms)2.02
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.48Total Q (Qts)0.39
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)0.257 ft.³Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.95 mm/N
BL Product (BL)6.23 TmDiaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)9.7g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)4.85 mmSurface Area of Cone (Sd)75.4 cm²
If not a XKi, could dual drivers in a sealed box work?
Thanks. No urgency. I know you are busy with much more exciting stuff.
Hi X.
I have been searching for budget options to build helper woofers for a FAST. Something that can be used with say a 0.4x or 0.53x Karlsonators to give more bass extension. There is very little mention of this driver on the forum, but it looks like a really nice woofer for the XKi maybe? Only $24.57 Is it possible to sim this driver for us?
DS135-8 Product Specifications:
Nominal Diameter5"Power Handling (RMS)50 Watts
Power Handling (max)100 WattsImpedance8 ohms
Frequency Response50 to 7,000 HzSensitivity86.6 dB 2.83V/1m
Voice Coil Diameter1"Magnet Weight21 oz.
Thiele-Small Parameters
Resonant Frequency (Fs)52.5 HzDC Resistance (Re)5.9 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)0.84 mHMechanical Q (Qms)2.02
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.48Total Q (Qts)0.39
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)0.257 ft.³Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.95 mm/N
BL Product (BL)6.23 TmDiaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)9.7g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax)4.85 mmSurface Area of Cone (Sd)75.4 cm²
If not a XKi, could dual drivers in a sealed box work?
Thanks. No urgency. I know you are busy with much more exciting stuff.
hey XRK971 - what do you think would make the best sub-sat combination with Beta 8CX - your XKi alignment? or a scaled K15 type? ( - don't know if Beta 8cx would directly substitute for the B&C - ??)
Regadring 0.46 scale K15 for eight inch:
Freddi,
This is similar to my experience with a 0.46x scaled K15 and an 8in B&C coaxial. The impact down to 100Hz was very good. Couple with a sub and you have a potent yet compact system. The sims showed excellent cone control. In fact, one of the few boxes that allows a perfect match of thermal max and Xmax at the same spot. Usually you run out of Xmax first.
0.46 K15 would be roughly (a bit more depth accounting
for 12=15mm plywood)
14.5 inches tall inside
9.675" width inside
7.625 depth inside
Regadring 0.46 scale K15 for eight inch:
Freddi,
This is similar to my experience with a 0.46x scaled K15 and an 8in B&C coaxial. The impact down to 100Hz was very good. Couple with a sub and you have a potent yet compact system. The sims showed excellent cone control. In fact, one of the few boxes that allows a perfect match of thermal max and Xmax at the same spot. Usually you run out of Xmax first.
0.46 K15 would be roughly (a bit more depth accounting
for 12=15mm plywood)
14.5 inches tall inside
9.675" width inside
7.625 depth inside