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Reference vs. preference
Reference vs. preference
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Old 12th January 2015, 08:11 PM   #1
pnix is offline pnix  United States
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Default Reference vs. preference

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
To be honest, I'd work on the latter item first - think of it as a taste test before you decide on your baking project. You might find that even the most exquisite high cocoa dark chocolate just doesn't suite your palate.
Reproduction is not like creating something you like. It is about recreation. If you want to get creative then you have to move further upstream where the creative process takes place.
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Old 12th January 2015, 08:19 PM   #2
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huh?

Your cited references are certainly excellent - there are doubtless dozens more from which to chose, but continuing the OP's chosen metaphor, I'd think that in addition to reading all cookbooks extant, establishing a general sense of one's personal "taste" couldn't hurt, and please don't try to argue that that isn't a valid consideration.
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Old 12th January 2015, 08:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
huh?

Your cited references are certainly excellent - there are doubtless dozens more from which to chose, but continuing the OP's chosen metaphor, I'd think that in addition to reading all cookbooks extant, establishing a general sense of one's personal "taste" couldn't hurt, and please don't try to argue that that isn't a valid consideration.
Taste is always a valid consideration but sound reproduction is not about taste. It's about reproducing someone else's taste. If you don't like the taste of certain musicians, recording, mixing and mastering engineers then you need to get behind the mixing desk yourself. Once the recording is finished the cooking process is done. You can't un-cook a meal.
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Old 13th January 2015, 04:06 AM   #4
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Reference vs. preference
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnix View Post
Reproduction is not like creating something you like. It is about recreation. If you want to get creative then you have to move further upstream where the creative process takes place.
Given that speakers are so bad given where they could be (maybe 10-20% of the way), it is certainly possible to choose sets of compromises such that equally valid speaker designs that sound completely different. Hence room, and individual taste are important considerations.

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Old 13th January 2015, 06:17 AM   #5
pnix is offline pnix  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Given that speakers are so bad given where they could be (maybe 10-20% of the way), it is certainly possible to choose sets of compromises such that equally valid speaker designs that sound completely different. Hence room, and individual taste are important considerations.

dave
Scientific studies have found that our taste is less individual than some might expect when tested blind. After all we are all humans. I take it you are familiar with the work done by Olive. If listeners see a tube glow or if a speaker is painted in a specific color then bias might kick in big time.
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Old 13th January 2015, 08:13 AM   #6
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Reference vs. preference
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Originally Posted by pnix View Post
I take it you are familiar with the work done by Olive.
Toole & Olive. I am. A good start. Still needs to be duplicated to be a valid scientifically valid result. And more comprehensive studies need to follow, they have not covered anywhere near all the bases.

And one also has to at least mention the potential for manufacturer bias.

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Old 13th January 2015, 02:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Toole & Olive. I am. A good start. Still needs to be duplicated to be a valid scientifically valid result. And more comprehensive studies need to follow, they have not covered anywhere near all the bases.

And one also has to at least mention the potential for manufacturer bias.

dave
An experiment does not necessarily need to be duplicated to be a scientifically valid result. One criteria of a scientifically valid experiment is that it can be reproduced. The aforementioned experiment can be reproduced any time hence it complies with the scientific criteria of repeatability.
If you feel the results might have been in error then you can do your own testing any time. Until then you have to accept the results. Any other reaction would be irrational.

Scientific method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I agree that a lot more things could be tested but that doesn't diminish the findings by Olive in any way.
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Old 13th January 2015, 08:08 PM   #8
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Reference vs. preference
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnix View Post
An experiment does not necessarily need to be duplicated to be a scientifically valid result.
Yes it does. Doesn't mean it isn't a useful result, but if it can't be duplicated then it is not valid. Take Cold Fusion as an example.

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Old 13th January 2015, 08:19 PM   #9
pnix is offline pnix  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Yes it does.
No, that's why I've posted a link to how the scientific method works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Doesn't mean it isn't a useful result, but if it can't be duplicated then it is not valid. Take Cold Fusion as an example.

dave
The experiment can be duplicated. What questions as to how to duplicate the experiment are left unanswered in your mind?

Olive did repeat the experiment. Several times. With different people. At different locations. At different times. Same results. What else do you want?

It's probably time that you do your own scientific studies if you can't accept Olive's results.
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Last edited by pnix; 13th January 2015 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 13th January 2015, 08:31 PM   #10
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Reference vs. preference
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Originally Posted by pnix View Post
The experiment can be duplicated. What questions as to how to duplicate the experiment are left unanswered in your mind?
So you say. I expect it can too. But, until it is independently duplicated it hasn't been yet. And i think that more comprehensive tests will show where the conclusions fall short. I see a very constrained set of results being touted globally which is decidedly not scientific.

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