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Mark audio alpair 7p vs alpair 7.3
Mark audio alpair 7p vs alpair 7.3
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Old 4th January 2015, 04:15 PM   #101
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Always useful to have more information. That said, I'd be rather wary of the 2nd link -you may not be aware, but that is the site belonging to a peculiar chap who whiled away his leisure time trolling on this forum, was banned for his chronic attitude-problem, then got banned again for continuing to troll with his first sock puppet. All rather sad, really. So under those circumstances, one would be inclined to regard any data or statements emanating from such a quarter with circumspection (until they are independently confirmed by another source).

Part of the issue is that wideband drivers do not, and generally cannot, produce such pretty measurements as limited BW units. That's just the nature of the beast, and since manufacturers are businesses rather than charitable institutions, it is not in their interest to present their product in the worst possible light. This applies to all who produce loudspeaker drive units (not just widebanders), to varying extents. No news there. The majority of people who like widebanders aren't all that bothered one way or the other -they're usually after something else, whatever that might happen to be (it varying, like anything else, from person to person). That can puzzle those who are used to more conventional contemporary approaches, and a very small minority have sometimes felt the need to patronise those having a different set of values to themselves. Fortunately this is an increasingly rare occurrence nowadays, since even that small minority generally remember after a while that other people are entitled to have their own tastes and preferences without being insulted for it, and we all live happily together in our little corner of the internet, enjoying the different music we like in the different ways we prefer.
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Last edited by Scottmoose; 4th January 2015 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 4th January 2015, 05:05 PM   #102
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Mmm. Agreed. My multiways, especially larger ones, are typically designed using a 2m nominal listening distance / mic. location (any closer & they won't sum properly), and generally for ~10 - 15 degrees off-axis. Possible honourable exception re the latter for the Vifa XT25 tweeter & its Scan Speak descendants since the HF of these ring-radiators falls off a cliff as you move off-axis -although in fairness, this varies with model, some holding up better than others & pretty good out to ~20 degrees or so.
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Old 4th January 2015, 08:22 PM   #103
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acstcwrfrmn View Post
I spent a great deal of time traveling back and forth to Japan where I was first introduced to fullrange. This has always been a pretty big deal over there. The best sounding systems used super tweeters for at least the top octave (10KHz and above). I don't want a true FR; I want to use a FR driver as a very wide band (i. e. extended range) midrange.
I found this design (on youtube) using the A7M, curious to know what make of tweet that is (sans horn) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsXCaPVWl0M
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Old 4th January 2015, 09:52 PM   #104
acstcwrfrmn is offline acstcwrfrmn  United States
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TAKET A link for super tweeter on youtube.

I looked on the YT video showing an Alpair with super tweeter on top. I'm retired by the way so I have all day to dream and play, especially internet research! The tweeter is called "BATPURE" Taket (Japan) is the parent company; they do headphones mostly for international markets but they do super tweeters for the Japanese market
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Old 4th January 2015, 10:02 PM   #105
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Good grief! Just goes to show, different strokes for different folks.
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Old 4th January 2015, 10:07 PM   #106
Bill poster is offline Bill poster  Thailand
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Interesting. I'd never heard of these - is the company still operating?

Here's a casual write up on head-fi

TAKET BAT-PURE - a casual and ultra tiny super tweeter
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Old 4th January 2015, 10:15 PM   #107
Scottmoose is offline Scottmoose  United Kingdom
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Looks like it, but mainly in Japan.
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Old 5th January 2015, 08:37 AM   #108
youknowyou is offline youknowyou  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Brines View Post

Exactly what did you mean by this? FYI no one in their right mind listens to speakers on axis. On-axis 1m 2.83v FR measurements are great for building cross-overs, but are meaningless in the normal listening room, unless your listening room is a large anechoic chamber and the listener is covered with a deep blanked of sound absorbing material. EQ needs to be done with the microphone at the listening chair and at normal listening SPL.

Bob
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Old 5th January 2015, 09:07 AM   #109
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Bob's point (slightly overstated for effect) is that if a speaker is designed to be listened to off-axis, it is generally not a good idea to listen to it on axis since you will not have optimal results. For example, many wideband drivers have a rising on-axis HF response. This is not because the designers are unable to produce a unit with a flat on-axis response trend (relatively speaking, that's no harder to achieve), but because the laws of physics dictate that due to cone size & profile, the dispersion of larger drivers in the higher frequencies will be relatively poor compared to smaller types (e.g. a 1in dome tweeter). So, since it is impractical for most people to weld themselves into a very tight listening region (other people might wish to listen for example), they design an HF rise into the on-axis HF response to improve performance over a wider listening window. Common practice since the 1940s / '50s.
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Old 5th January 2015, 04:27 PM   #110
youknowyou is offline youknowyou  Canada
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kk
true that indeed for full range drivers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Bob's point (slightly overstated for effect) is that if a speaker is designed to be listened to off-axis, it is generally not a good idea to listen to it on axis since you will not have optimal results. For example, many wideband drivers have a rising on-axis HF response. This is not because the designers are unable to produce a unit with a flat on-axis response trend (relatively speaking, that's no harder to achieve), but because the laws of physics dictate that due to cone size & profile, the dispersion of larger drivers in the higher frequencies will be relatively poor compared to smaller types (e.g. a 1in dome tweeter). So, since it is impractical for most people to weld themselves into a very tight listening region (other people might wish to listen for example), they design an HF rise into the on-axis HF response to improve performance over a wider listening window. Common practice since the 1940s / '50s.
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