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Old 24th August 2014, 01:08 PM   #111
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST/WAW applications
Legis,
Thanks for checking it out and the encouragement. I guess you have enough of a system on your hands but you should fire up that old tractrix horn you have lying around. I forgot to save the raw response but it needed a few notches (6.7khz for same breakup mode reduction, and 400Hz) and a high shelf from 1200Hz and I added another one up high at 13khz for more "air". The negative notch at 1.04kHz is the one I would have preferred not to use but I made it wide. Following the general practice of not applying positive peak EQ, if notches go wide and stay away from 500Hz to 5kHz range. Here is the PEQ snapshot of what was applied. I will have to retake the raw data when I do vertical polars (by flipping horn 90 deg).
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File Type: jpg image.jpg (173.6 KB, 728 views)

Last edited by xrk971; 24th August 2014 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 24th August 2014, 04:14 PM   #112
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default RAW response no EQ comparo

Here is the raw measurement from the tractrix without any EQ (black) and with the above PEQ applied (red):

Click the image to open in full size.

I may have overdone the 1.04kHz notch...
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File Type: png no-eq-comparo.png (83.3 KB, 1814 views)
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Old 24th August 2014, 06:28 PM   #113
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Vertical Polar Measurment

I rotated the speaker 90 deg about its axis in order to do the vertical polars. It seems there is a floor bounce that is more pronounced than the other orientation. It is pretty flat over +/- 30 deg. Also shown in the 0 deg horizontal trace for comparison. Note that this is using a newer EQ where I smoothed out the peak that was at 180Hz and I reduced the notch at 1.04kHz (actually shifted to 1150 Hz).

PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST/WAW applications-tractrix-polar-vertical-png
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File Type: png tractrix-polar-vertical.png (158.1 KB, 860 views)
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Old 24th August 2014, 07:02 PM   #114
Legis is offline Legis  Finland
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Looks qood! Are those measured indoors or out? Have you tried what a shorter time window ("IR Windows" button in REW) does to the HF response, like 3-10ms?
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Old 24th August 2014, 07:44 PM   #115
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Indoors. Let me give that IR window a try. I am adding a second layer of foam with household latex caulking in between for a constrained layer damping. Just finished top and bottom. The curved sides will be tricky because need to make another curved panel and needs to be clamped while drying... Maybe add patches of CLD rather than one big sheet?
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Old 24th August 2014, 09:57 PM   #116
anthonybisset is offline anthonybisset  Japan
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Thanks for posting a clip. It's pretty even sounding. Sibilance is a bit more obvious but I think that's in the recording.

Not to become a broken record but a mono horn will usually sound more closed in and less realistic than a mono box speaker because it lacks the early room reflections that make for pseudo-stereo ambiance. I think you'll find the horn more source accurate in stereo config than stereo OB or IB for the same reason. Room treatment nulls this consideration and puts both alignments on even footing with regards to source accuracy.

Would love to hear more cymbals in the next recording since the hf loading/performance is so debated.
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Old 24th August 2014, 10:12 PM   #117
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonybisset View Post
Thanks for posting a clip. It's pretty even sounding. Sibilance is a bit more obvious but I think that's in the recording.

Not to become a broken record but a mono horn will usually sound more closed in and less realistic than a mono box speaker because it lacks the early room reflections that make for pseudo-stereo ambiance. I think you'll find the horn more source accurate in stereo config than stereo OB or IB for the same reason. Room treatment nulls this consideration and puts both alignments on even footing with regards to source accuracy.

Would love to hear more cymbals in the next recording since the hf loading/performance is so debated.
More cymbals coming up soon. If you have a YouTube clip that you think demonstrates high freq well let me know and I will play/record it through the horn. I am working on reducing panel vibs at this point I think things are looking optimisct that this should go to the next stage of being made of wood or fiberglass, etc. without too much risk that it will be a flop.
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Old 25th August 2014, 01:18 AM   #118
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Sound Clips with Cymbals

Ok, here is what I have on hand that has cymbals. It's from the Jazz Undeground, Live at Small's.

Here are some progress photos of the constrained layer damping that I have managed to add to the top and bottom (latex caulking between 2 layers of foam core). I also trimmed down the panels to reduce radiator area for sound emission.

Liberal dose of latex caulking for the constrained layer:

PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST/WAW applications-tractrix-build-cld-6-jpg

Panels added on top of caulking:

PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST/WAW applications-tractrix-build-cld-7-jpg

Closeup of the driver and driver chamber (sitting below) - that's a lot of Nd magnets for a 5 inch driver:

PRV 5MR450-NDY for FAST/WAW applications-tractrix-build-driver-6-jpg

Sound clips below...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Tractrix-build--CLD-6.jpg (106.7 KB, 4357 views)
File Type: jpg Tractrix-build--CLD-7.jpg (87.3 KB, 1633 views)
File Type: jpg Tractrix-build-driver-6.jpg (87.8 KB, 838 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip Tractrix-new-EQ-clip-02-cybals.zip (838.6 KB, 57 views)
File Type: zip Tractrix-new-EQ-clip-03-cybals.zip (830.1 KB, 40 views)
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Old 25th August 2014, 04:12 AM   #119
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NEO Dan View Post
Chapeau xrk971,
If you get that dip ironed out...
An externally hosted image should be here but it no longer works. Please upload images instead of linking to them to prevent this.
NEO Dan,
Unfortunately, that 1.7 kHz dip is not a back reflection but results from a 4.1 in path cancellation corresponding to the diagonal distance from one vertex to the opposite vertex in the horn throat. Only way to fix this is to use a phase plug or maybe make a round throat that transitions to square. So, no hats off to me I guess... In any event, the raw vs EQ'd response looks not so bad, with that cancellation dip being the only major blemish.
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Old 25th August 2014, 04:24 AM   #120
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Code for Tractrix Synergy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kees52 View Post
Have you sim this with hornresp? I did and I get not the export well, the two straight plates up and down is a problem when export the horn with hornresp, maybe you can tell me how you did this, I do like this one, and want a two way for home use covering 80 Hz to 20 Khz, if that low will work, but hornresp say yes.

The horn looks more exponential then tractrix to my eyes.

thanks

kees
Kees,
Here is the Akabak script for the tractrix horn with synergy injection port for Kappalites. Remove the comment bar | in front of the OFF switches at each System to look at individual system.
Cheers,
X

This is a sample of the output from this code:
Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Files
File Type: txt 5MR450NDY-Tractrix-Synergy.txt (14.3 KB, 29 views)

Last edited by xrk971; 25th August 2014 at 04:31 AM.
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